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  #1  
Old 12-24-2005, 06:17 PM
AceHiStation AceHiStation is offline
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Default 3/6(6-max): 88 overpair on flop

Villain in this hand is a regular, and I have him at 31/21 through 1.1K hands. I have played with him a bit and he seems fairly solid but this was one of the first hands he had played since he sat down this session. How does my line look and what do you guys think of the minraise on the flop?


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG ($366.10)
MP ($1204)
CO ($617)
Hero ($600)
SB ($600.25)
BB ($377)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $3.
UTG calls $6, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $25</font>, Hero calls $25, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls $19.

Flop: ($84) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets $80</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $160</font>, UTG folds, CO calls $80.

Turn: ($404) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
CO checks, Hero checks.

River: ($404) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">CO bets $199</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $603
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  #2  
Old 12-24-2005, 06:30 PM
xorbie xorbie is offline
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Default Re: 3/6(6-max): 88 overpair on flop

Flop minraise is only good if you think he will fold overcards, otherwise it just builds the pot absurdly and gives you no ability to play correctly.
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  #3  
Old 12-24-2005, 06:41 PM
AceHiStation AceHiStation is offline
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Default Re: 3/6(6-max): 88 overpair on flop

I think he will fold overcards to this raise. That is the purpose of the raise. Also to allow myself a cheap river card.
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  #4  
Old 12-24-2005, 06:54 PM
xorbie xorbie is offline
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Default Re: 3/6(6-max): 88 overpair on flop

But what's the point of taking a cheap river card? If you are behind you only have 2 outs anyway (besides runner runner), and the way you played the flop/turn you're conceding the pot anyway to a river bet, which I think sucks because not only do you not get better hands to fold on the flop, but you also let some worse hands win (if the guy is playing 78 or A6 or something).
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  #5  
Old 12-24-2005, 07:17 PM
AceHiStation AceHiStation is offline
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Default Re: 3/6(6-max): 88 overpair on flop

Ok, I can see your point there xorbie. Can you provide me with a better line to take? What would be your plan of action for this hand?
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  #6  
Old 12-24-2005, 07:24 PM
xorbie xorbie is offline
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Default Re: 3/6(6-max): 88 overpair on flop

I'm not really sure to be honest, I hate this spot too. I would probably raise the flop hard, because at this point I can't count on any card higher than 8 as all that safe if I just smooth call (as CO could be raising just about any overcards). If he calls, I'm done with the hand.
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  #7  
Old 12-24-2005, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: 3/6(6-max): 88 overpair on flop

Raise flop to $300. Push turn.
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  #8  
Old 12-24-2005, 07:41 PM
Raven Raven is offline
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Default Re: 3/6(6-max): 88 overpair on flop

Your decision on the flop depends on his frequency of continuation bet on the flop. A lot of player will do less continuation bet on the flop against 2 player than against one. If you know he will often check overcards here, a fold can be correct, and also, theres still the UTG player left to act who could have a hand. If he his the type of player who will bet overcards regardless I agree that a raise is correct, but I would like it more to 200 $, as he will be a lot more honest I think with this amount.

You can call too, but you have to balance the cost of raising without more information on the flop without giving a free card, to the cost of giving a free card to a probable 6 out, but then you can invest more money on the turn with more information. The typical player will usually check two overcards on the turn and bet again with an overpair or a set, but it suck when he mix it up with with a check with an overpair some % of the time, or a bluff when a high card hit.

Its a fairly common situation that is interesting, as its a tough spot.
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  #9  
Old 12-24-2005, 07:49 PM
BobboFitos BobboFitos is offline
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Default Re: 3/6(6-max): 88 overpair on flop

I like calling these flops
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  #10  
Old 12-24-2005, 07:50 PM
Chaostracize Chaostracize is offline
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Default Re: 3/6(6-max): 88 overpair on flop

Hey Ace-

This spot is very player dependent. This may be weak, but I fold on the flop often. You're not going to be making a lot of money against worst hands (which hands are going to call that you have beat?) and you stand to lose a bunch if you go into call down mode.

Actually, the more I think about it, maybe I'm lying. It's so player dependent.

I definitely don't minraise. I think if I do anything I'm just calling here and seeing what he does on the turn.

I don't know what raising the flop hard does either. Are you trying to get him to fold a better hand or call with a worse one? I don't think either is happening. Sure you get to protect your hand against high cards sometimes, but I don't think building up that pot is the right way to go.

Also, I bet this turn for a few reasons. (This might be bad advice and I'm ok with getting flamed for it). First, if villain was trying to peel with overs, you take it away now. Well, hold on, I think I'm doubling back on myself again. An overpair would definitely love to CR this turn. And you did pick up a bunch of outs if you are behind. Yeah, I check behind here, too.

Umm, anything else... yeah, river is a fold.

This post was kind of worthless, haha. Sorry.
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