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  #11  
Old 11-27-2005, 07:14 PM
Joe Tall Joe Tall is offline
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Default Re: KTs in a kill pot 5/10@FW

Must raise preflop, you have what is likely the best hand, there is a lot of dead money out there and can buy the button.

Raise the flop, you likely have the best hand can still knock out a few players behind you and build yourself a nice pot.

If you look at this out of turn action as calling 3-cold, you are getting 12:3 which fine for your nut draw, even if you are short of paired board outs.
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  #12  
Old 11-27-2005, 07:17 PM
Joe Tall Joe Tall is offline
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Default Re: KTs in a kill pot 5/10@FW

[ QUOTE ]
It makes the rest of the hand play smoother.

[/ QUOTE ]

How? He should be raising preflop for much more sound reasons than this one.
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  #13  
Old 11-27-2005, 07:58 PM
BarronVangorToth BarronVangorToth is offline
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Default Re: KTs in a kill pot 5/10@FW

Look at the action of what happened.

Think about what would happen if you raise pre-flop.

Smoother > the obvious:

[ QUOTE ]
Must raise preflop, you have what is likely the best hand, there is a lot of dead money out there and can buy the button.

[/ QUOTE ]

Certainly, that plays a part ... but the whole hand may avoid this cluster-scenario of what did happen with the raise pre-flop.

Barron Vangor Toth
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  #14  
Old 11-27-2005, 08:10 PM
Joe Tall Joe Tall is offline
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Default Re: KTs in a kill pot 5/10@FW

[ QUOTE ]
Certainly, that plays a part ...

[/ QUOTE ]

No it doesn't, it's the whole thing, no "part".

[ QUOTE ]
Look at the action of what happened.

Think about what would happen if you raise pre-flop.

... but the whole hand may avoid this cluster-scenario of what did happen with the raise pre-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, so we raise KTs preflop because when you flop top pair, turn the nut draw and there is a bet and raise and a out-of-turn 3-bet, it's much smoother...ah, I forgot that KTs is destined to this action, sorry. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]
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  #15  
Old 11-27-2005, 08:24 PM
brettbrettr brettbrettr is offline
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Default Re: KTs in a kill pot 5/10@FW

Unless you can read the future, smoothness to come doesn't make sense. Sure, it s aby product of the pfr, but not the point.
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  #16  
Old 11-27-2005, 10:37 PM
JoeU JoeU is offline
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Default Results

Sorry for the delay in the results.

My buddy folded to the 2-bet possible 3-bet. The button did 3-bet and it was 3-way to the river of the 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

The kill had A3o and the button had 33 for the flopped set.

Thanks to everyone for the great responses.

Joe
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  #17  
Old 11-28-2005, 12:12 AM
BarronVangorToth BarronVangorToth is offline
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Default Re: KTs in a kill pot 5/10@FW

[ QUOTE ]

Oh, so we raise KTs preflop because when you flop top pair, turn the nut draw and there is a bet and raise and a out-of-turn 3-bet, it's much smoother...ah, I forgot that KTs is destined to this action, sorry. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]


You are being results oriented. (And that's coming from me of all people.)

If you raise, the whole hand changes.

Will the button be in there? Maybe. Maybe not.

The big blind? Maybe. Maybe not.

Others? Maybe. Maybe not.

Will your pre-flop raise create a different image than your late-position limp did? Maybe. Maybe not.

Will the whole hand go smoother? Maybe. Maybe n--

Scratch that. Almost definitely.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com
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  #18  
Old 11-28-2005, 12:38 AM
brettbrettr brettbrettr is offline
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Default Re: KTs in a kill pot 5/10@FW

No, I think you're the one being results oriented. There are much better reasons for raising than "making the hand go smoother." I agree that the hand changes when you raise pre-flop. I also agree that "the hand goes smoother." But neither of these is a reason to raise and neither one is why the OP should have raised.
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  #19  
Old 11-28-2005, 01:06 AM
shemp shemp is offline
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Default Re: KTs in a kill pot 5/10@FW

[ QUOTE ]
Raise pre-flop.

It makes the rest of the hand play smoother.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've neither explained why or even what you mean, so others are left to guess. You just assert it is so, and one doesn't know what is-ness is.

Is it the idea that you've defined your hand for others (and thereby created some logical structure to consider their actions)? That others have defined their hands by calling? Both? What? It's hard to have a conversation in this medium with someone who waves their hands.
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  #20  
Old 11-28-2005, 02:31 AM
heykev heykev is offline
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Default Re: KTs in a kill pot 5/10@FW

Joe U posted this for me, he failed to mention that i had a dead read on the table and had built my original buy in of $250 up to around $600. I understand I was getting close to true odds to call but I knew I was up against a set. In this weak game raising preflop or on the on the flop would not in my opinion have changed any of the action based on the play in the previous 4 hours I was there. If anything I should have folded this hand preflop. I was clearly the best player at the table and thought I would be better suited getting my money into another pot where I would be much more of a favorite. At best in this hand I felt I had 8 true outs. Thanx for all the responses.
Kevin
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