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  #1  
Old 12-14-2005, 03:59 AM
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Default Failure to extract $ from a Maniac - comments on all streets please.

This was a frustrating hand I was in last night because I was waiting for this to happen against the BB whose VP$IP was 52%, PFR% was 38%, and Aggression Ratio was 8.0 over 100 hands. But when I hit the monster hand on the flop, I didn't know what to do with it other than to just slowplay it and hope he would be very aggressive and make pot-sized bets or overbets like he had been at this table since he sat down. Could I have played it any better?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

BB ($24.40)
UTG ($12.65)
Hero ($66.40)
CO ($61.20)
Button ($29.95)
SB ($37.65)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $1</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls $0.75.

Flop: ($2.35) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $0.5</font>, Hero calls $0.50.

Turn: ($3.35) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($3.35) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Here bets $5, Button folds.

Final Pot: $3.35

NOTE: I limped in preflop because I was certain that Maniac would raise for me since he was on the button (standard play by him). Based on the other hands he had played and his PFR%, I was fairly certain I had the best hand before the flop, but I hate to reraise with king high. Plus it was not out of the realm of possibility that this guy would come back over the top and push with nothing (or there was a possibility I was behind in the hand, so why put more than $1 in the pot?). I think I may be wrong about this - should I have reraised preflop once we were isolated?

I checked the uber-flop expecting a big bet from Maniac, and he does the small $.50. I hate to raise here because I want him to get some kind of hand, so I just call. The turn gave a broadway possibility and a possible flush draw, so I was hoping that he might have caught a piece of that, so I checked again. His check behind was not what I had in mind - he had been so aggressive on almost all other hands when others showed weakness.

The river didn't help matters, but I was hoping my $5 overbet would look like a steal (instead, it probably looked like a jack to him). Should I have checked the river? Please help! Was there anything that I could have done differently on any street?

After the hand, I was kicking myself for not raising preflop - thinking that he clearly would have at least called - making the pot that much more an incentive for him to try to bluff at it post flop. Of course, that's always easy to say after the hand where you flop a boat and it improves to quads on the river.

Thanks in advance for your help!
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  #2  
Old 12-14-2005, 04:10 AM
wdeadwyler wdeadwyler is offline
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Default Re: Failure to extract $ from a Maniac - comments on all streets please.

pot the flop
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  #3  
Old 12-14-2005, 05:35 AM
Malachii Malachii is offline
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Default Re: Failure to extract $ from a Maniac - comments on all streets please.

C/R flop big. Raise preflop.
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  #4  
Old 12-14-2005, 07:13 AM
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Default Re: Failure to extract $ from a Maniac - comments on all streets please.

[ QUOTE ]
pot the flop

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this board might have been scary even for a maniac. U absorbed almost every out on the flop... I would go for check call flop. Maybe try to piss him of with small turnbet. Wait for a set
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  #5  
Old 12-14-2005, 04:30 PM
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Default Re: Failure to extract $ from a Maniac - comments on all streets please.

Can you help me understand why I should pot the flop when I flop the nuts - which would be VERY unlikely to get beaten regardless of what two cards come?

Isn't the idea against a maniac to let him dig his own grave? Or, are you saying that by pot betting the flop it gives him more incentive to try to make a an aggressive move against me?

I think I like that idea. I just never really thought that I would need to bet out in order to encourage his action - given his prior aggressive play.
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  #6  
Old 12-14-2005, 04:33 PM
Bukem_ Bukem_ is offline
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Default Re: Failure to extract $ from a Maniac - comments on all streets pleas

Check or $1 on flop. With your line, you need to check the river.
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  #7  
Old 12-14-2005, 04:36 PM
4_2_it 4_2_it is offline
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Default Re: Failure to extract $ from a Maniac - comments on all streets please.

Normally you shouldn't play your monsters any differently from a solid hand like two pair. If you don't try to build a pot on the flop how much of a bet can reasonably expect villain to call on the river. Either villain is coming along for the ride or he isn't.

I can understand the check on the flop, but you raise his donk bet or lead out for pot on the turn.

I make most of my money against maniacs with TPTK and two pair hands rather than monsters, because even a maniac can usually figure out when he is badly beaten.
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  #8  
Old 12-14-2005, 04:38 PM
Kyriefurro Kyriefurro is offline
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Default Re: Failure to extract $ from a Maniac - comments on all streets please.

[ QUOTE ]
Can you help me understand why I should pot the flop when I flop the nuts - which would be VERY unlikely to get beaten regardless of what two cards come?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you'd pot the flop with a non-nut hand.

Just because villain is LAG doesn't mean he's stupid. A TAG player who check calls on on a flop like this may as well be turning over his hand so villain can see it.

I'd definately be making a PSB on the flop. Then, when the turn hits I'd probably make a "weak" 1/3 to 1/2 PSB...something that looks like a blocking bet. This invites villain to raise, and then you can get all-in.

But check/calling this flop was too obvious.
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  #9  
Old 12-14-2005, 04:43 PM
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Default Re: Failure to extract $ from a Maniac - comments on all streets please.

go crazy on him! dare him to call or raise your bets, don't be scared.
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  #10  
Old 12-14-2005, 04:57 PM
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Default Re: Failure to extract $ from a Maniac - comments on all streets please.

[ QUOTE ]
go crazy on him! dare him to call or raise your bets, don't be scared.

[/ QUOTE ]

Epiphany! I got it. Thanks for the posts, guys. Let the maniac be a maniac by betting into him (just like I did previously with K8 in the BB and led out with a pot sized bet after a flop of 2,3,8 which he reraised and I folded). Thanks again.
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