flopped set, coordinated board

alfatcat · #1 02-03-2005, 04:56 PM

Was having software issues so no PT stats, but generally MP1 seems to be LAG and UTG+1 seems to be LP.

I believe my play here was pretty standard. I'm comfortable with PF, thought about check-raise on the flop, but decided to bet and I'm comfortable with my re-raise.

Mostly wondering about the river. Trying to be aggressive and not see monsters under the bed, but I get an ugly board. 3 flush (back-door) and a possible straight draw on the board (but not a very likely one, I would think). I decide to bet and get a raise and multiple callers. Am I definitely beat or only probably beat? Should I have bet out with this board? Should I have made that crying call? I think probably given the size of the pot. Thoughts?

Thanks!

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 raises, Button folds, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

River: (13 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+2 raises, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 17 BB

easypete · #2 02-03-2005, 05:00 PM

Looks good... Don't dream of folding this. I like the bet/call river.

easypete · #3 02-03-2005, 05:02 PM

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thought about check-raise on the flop

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UGH... c/r who? Think... then do... don't just do.

tiltaholic · #4 02-03-2005, 05:07 PM

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I believe my play here was pretty standard.

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yes

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I decide to bet and get a raise and multiple callers.

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one caller?
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Am I definitely beat or only probably beat?

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You are not definitely beat. Depending on how passive he is, you might be beat, or might be probably beat.

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Should I have bet out with this board?

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100% of the time.
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Should I have made that crying call?

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yes. and i wouldn't call it a crying call. could be two pair very easily.

JerseyTom · #5 02-03-2005, 05:07 PM

This is perfect.

You'll be called on this river by many, many, many hands that you beat (i.e. you can usually value bet) and you will beat hands that raise this river (e.g. 2 pair) often enough that you must call (you're getting 16:1 on your river - you're certainly good here more than 6% of the time).

Nice hand.

Tom

JordanIB · #6 02-03-2005, 05:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
thought about check-raise on the flop

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UGH... c/r who? Think... then do... don't just do.

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It's the land of .5/1

With 6 players in, an A, 2 broadways, a straight draw, and a 2 flush on the board, somebody's betting. No doubt it my mind.

Edit: This is not to condone the idea of c/r this hand. But it is to say that chastising the planned check-raise simply because nobody showed pre-flop aggression is a gross exaggeration.

easypete · #7 02-03-2005, 05:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
thought about check-raise on the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

UGH... c/r who? Think... then do... don't just do.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's the land of .5/1

With 6 players in, an A, 2 broadways, a straight draw, and a 2 flush on the board, somebody's betting. No doubt it my mind.

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Great, but who?

If it's the button, or if it's the BB bets... it's 2 different scenarios.

davelin · #8 02-03-2005, 05:19 PM

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But it is to say that chastising the planned check-raise simply because nobody showed pre-flop aggression is a gross exaggeration.

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We chastise the check-raise here and in similar situations because a) it may get checked through but more importantly b) you have no idea who you're going to check-raise. Check-raising the wrong person <<< just betting out

alfatcat · #9 02-03-2005, 05:27 PM

The raiser had Kd Qc for the straight. Given the generally loose passive nature of this table, he might have even had implied odds (pot was 11BB when he called) to call if the board weren't so coordinated and there hadn't been any aggression.

It seems like the last 5-7 times I've flopped a set and done pretty much everything right I've gotten it cracked with back-door garbage. I know I've got huge pot equity in these situations and will win far more than I lose in the long run...but UGH!

Thanks for all the replies!

SeeWillie · #10 02-03-2005, 05:38 PM

Dave,

I think I understand your point about the problem with a checkraise (other than the obvious free card if it is checked through) being "you don't know who is going to bet." If the next player to act (after you check) bets, then your checkraise will have the effect of building the pot and enticing the draws to hang in there, since the field is likely to call for 1 SB, and then call another SB. If the last player to act bets, then your checkraise will force the rest of the field to call 2 cold, driving out some opponents. So, your checkraise could have the opposite effect that you want because you don't know who you are checkraising.

Right?