Should I have been in this hand still?

eleventy · #1 06-20-2005, 10:33 AM

My question is on the flop. The Pot was big and I had an inside str8 draw, backdoor flush draw and an overcard that probably was no good. Do I call the first 2 bets to me on the flop? I think I have to call the 2nd 2 since I called the first. The turn is an easy call. Is this a good call or am I a fish.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, SB raises, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, BB raises, MP1 folds, MP3 folds, Hero calls, SB 3-bets, BB caps, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (11 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, SB calls.

Grease · #2 06-20-2005, 10:44 AM

This hand is frighteningly like a hand in SSH. Ed Miller proports you rereaise. The pot is more than big enough to continue, and you would like to see all 5 cards. so the best thing to do it reraise in an attempt to buy a free card on the turn. Even though you didn't, you're definitely calling the 2 back to you after you called the original 2.

mdrudeen · #3 06-20-2005, 10:50 AM

hmm if you discount your 3 ace outs (which I think is wise) then you are looking at 23 to 1 to runner runner a flush and 10 to 1 to hit the inside straight on the next card. You got 7 to 1 on your first cold call and 9 to 1 on your second. Looks like you made the same mistake twice on the same street

On preview I don't mind a raise either it is certainly a better option then calling. Although I would still fold.

mosta · #4 06-20-2005, 10:51 AM

I can give you three answers: fold, fold, and fold.

1. on the flop you're getting 3.25:1. nowhere close to what you need.

2. you could play for the river. assume you get the 6.5sb's plus 4sb's on the turn plus 2 sb's on the river = 12.5sb's, and that it only costs you 2 sb's on each the flop and the turn. that's 3 and change to 1. still no good. 5 outs with two cards is more like 4:1 against.

3. all these scenarios assume no more raising and when pf raiser gets raised there's too much chance he's not going to take it quiety. ie, you're going to spewing dinero.

Fat Nicky · #5 06-20-2005, 10:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This hand is frighteningly like a hand in SSH. Ed Miller proports you rereaise. The pot is more than big enough to continue, and you would like to see all 5 cards. so the best thing to do it reraise in an attempt to buy a free card on the turn. Even though you didn't, you're definitely calling the 2 back to you after you called the original 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think in order for a 3-bet to have any value here, we need to be VERY sure that we're gonna get the free card.

mosta · #6 06-20-2005, 10:52 AM

3 bet for free card is best approach to playing the hand, I agree. but I'm happy to walk away.

crunchy1 · #7 06-20-2005, 10:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
1. on the flop you're getting 3.25:1.

[/ QUOTE ]
He's getting immediate odds of 6.5-to-1 on the first flop call and 10-to-1 on the second flop call (assuming SB's call of the cap).

mosta · #8 06-20-2005, 10:58 AM

right, right, that's what I had but I'm too tired (divided twice). it's not "nowhere close", but it doesn't do it for 5 or so outs.

Borno · #9 06-20-2005, 10:58 AM

with 6.5:1 on the first flop bet, raising is right if you can get a free card (FOR SURE ONLY)- if you cant then you still have just enough to peel with you 4 + 1.5 + 1.5 outs (roughly 7.. this time I would way 6.5 thought becaus eI think your ace has even less value here. - this is heavily read based.

on the cap you MUST call once your committed.

--Jeremy

eleventy · #10 06-20-2005, 10:59 AM

I know I should know this but how many outs do we count a backdoor flush draw as?