Please help me understand this SSHE concept

[pstripling]

I have been reviewing SSHE alot lately and wanted some clarification on this preflop concept. The middle pair hands (77-99) are giving me just a bit of trouble from EP and early MP.

If the table is an average 3/6 10 handed game on PartyPoker with the usual mix of suspects what is the default play with these hands when it is folded to you OR there is one limper.

Preflop chart in SSHE says limp, in the notes section afterwards it says a raise can also be the correct play when folded to you or with one limper.

The middle pairs play best when multi-way or heads up, correct?

By raising EP you will get called by the hands that have you crushed (TT-AA) and also many of the so called coin flip hands (2 suited broadway, etc.). By limping you encourage multi way action, but often will get drawn out on by something that would have folded to a raise.

Raising allows you to "steal" the blinds every now and again, you will also often pick up a caller who will chase till the turn with overcards and fold...but you will also often get drawn out on and have to pay off the better hand.

Limping allows you to maybe see the flop cheap, and if you hit your set, you are well disguised and will probably win a big pot.

Always limping with these hands seems somewhat weak/tight to me. Always raising with them seems somewhat overaggressive to me. Can anyone shed some light on this for me. Thanks

[runa]

The tough part about these hands is that its about walking that fine line between raising and limping.

If the pot is very likely multi-way, like if two or three people have limped in front of you, or the players are very loose and CC raises alot, then you're less likely to get it HU and win unimproved. You will be up against high cards much more often than high PP, and even though its a coin flip, it's a decent holding if the flop is favorable. Occasionally I 3-bet a raiser if I feel they are raising light (LAG) and can isolate them.

Hands like this also have multi-way prospects if you flop your set. So if you suspect that you can get more people in by limping and raising won't get it HU then you should limp and play it lightly post-flop.

There is not hard and fast answer as these hands play differently in specific situations, but hopefully this helps.

[Vern]

In EP or MP1 I think I limp behind every time unless the table is very tight and I can get heads up with a weak opponent that limped in front of me. Since that is rarely the case, limping behind is likely the 99% answer. After MP2, you will open raise with just about anything worth playing because of the chance to take the blinds right there. EP and MP1 at a full table are different and table dependant with middle pairs. Will your raise get you heads up with a blind or is the table loose? If it is loose, limping in early may be ok since you don't mind as much if someone raises behind and isolates you to make it heads up or if 5 others limp. You just play post flop differently depending on what happens. The fact that it is folded to you in EP/MP1 has no real bearing on open raising. At MP2 it is a read call but generally should be played like MP3 and beyond where everything is raise or fold if you are opening.

The book itself discusses hands in MP that should be open raised because there are two ways to play them, HU unimproved or multiway (5+ way) improved to powerhouses but that don't thrive in the inbetween of 3-4 way action. Your middle pairs fall into this realm.

Vern

Standard Disclaimer, I am by no means an expert at any of this.

[MaxPower]

You would want to raise if you are the first to enter the pot from Middle position or later. If a weak player limps in EP or MP, then you would want to raise to isolate him.

Those would be the two standard scenarios in which you would want to raise. Otherwise, you should limp in a loose game.

[Vern]

I think I said the same thing only Max said it better [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Victor]

I can not think of a situation where limping was better than raising.