84s in the SB.call call

[Spicymoose]

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Interesting. I'm still don't think that it's +EV, but that doesn't mean I can't be convinced otherwise.

Chance of getting a Straight Flush on the flop: 0.01%
Chance of getting 4-of-a-kind on the flop: 0.01%
Chance of getting a Full House on the flop: 0.09%
Chance of getting a Flush on the flop: 0.84%
Chance of getting a Straight on the flop: 0.32%
Chance of getting 3-of-a-kind on the flop: 1.57%
Chance of getting 2 Pair on the flop: 3.03%

Chance of getting a Four Flush on the flop: 10.94%
Chance of getting 1 Pair on the flop: 28.96%

The last two mean we'd have to keep drawing, so we'll weight them by how often the draws come in. The flush comes in ~35%, so (0.1094)(0.35) = 0.038 = 3.8%. The pair improves to trips or 2pr about 20% of the time, so (0.2896)(0.2) = 0.058 = 5.8%

If we add those up, we get around 15.5%, or around 5.5:1 odds. Since many of those hands won't hold up even if we hit, and we'll have to fold the flop or turn sometimes, I think the implied odds we have for the hidden hand aren't enough.

Again, I could be convinced. Am I missing anything important?

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5:1 means we need to be able to have a situation where we can continue on the flop profitably 1 in 6 times. Hard to figure out the math exactly, but you did give some numbers. Flopping a flush draw is awesome, flopping a single pair is good, but not great, but if it comes with a backdoor flush, it is good. Furthermore, since we are paying 2/3 of a SB to play, rather than the normal 1 SB, our implied odds are bigger than usual. 50% bigger than usual.

[jba]

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I fold the flop all of the time and overcall the river never.

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same here. I complete pf too.

getting 7-1 on the flop isn't that great when drawing to 2 good outs and 3 bad ones. two pair is ugly enough but this bottom two can easily lose to a better two pair on this board, also considering all the flush/straight redraws I would say bottom two pair no good a lot here.

edit: i thought the flop was twotone for some reason but I still stick with fold, other 2pr and straights, reverse implied, etc