A Discussion regarding Online Poker is Rigged (long)

[bigalt]

I think it would be incredibly easy for them to rig it, and very easy for it to be pretty undetectible. Screw the 75% randomness-- they could make it 99% and it would still have a significant impact due to sheer volume.

you ignore (or perhaps discount) the more direct reasons to rig it, either to steer money towards shills for the site or to generate more rake. I think a very small change to the "random" number generator could easily pad their pockets.

the sample size required to show an unfair distribution would be nuts. even to show that there is a legitimate distribution of 30^5 board card possiblities that makes-- that's a lot of friggin hands! i hope these auditing companies have some beefy computers to crunch those numbers.

HOWEVER, I think that the matter is pretty academic. There's a decent chance IMO it's rigged a little, or a slim chance that it's rigged a lot.

Either way, playing profitable poker seems to work in general, except for the Chicken Littles who are winning B&M players who always lose their KK to AA when playing online, and these are the only folks who generally seem concerned with it's rigged-ness.

So I ask you, why do you care if it's rigged or not?

[Nalapoint1]

Why do you care if the lion that is charging you has teeth and razor sharp claws and weighs 500 lbs? You have the gun.

[Slacker13]

[bigalt]

but we knew we were hunting lions. if we went out to hunt 490 pound lions with razor sharp teeth and claws, and instead came across a 500 pound lion is it so bad?

I'm saying, many of us have shown profitability, some to a very substantial degree. If we make the case that it has not been rigged in the past and will be in the future, I can see it being a big concern.

But if it has always been rigged, with all the intangibles associated who knows, that might even be contributing to that profitability?

[jonnyv]

Great post!!! I feel you have many good points as to why a site would be rigged. I no longer play online because of the possibility of it being rigged. I was a 3bb winner for close to three years when the huge downswing happened to me in march. I was up $6800 for the year playing 2+2 style in 3-6, 5-10 limit. I went on a huge downswing where many sets, flushes, two pair were being beat on the river. After going over the hand histories and looking for leaks I found I played the hands correctly and was just being outdrawn. After taking a break and going back the same thing was happening to me. I decided it was not worth it anymore and now play home games as I was playing to much and it was mentally getting to me. Do I think its rigged? I don't think so, as these sites are already making huge money and do not need to cheat. It really doesn't make much sense for them to do this for the fear of being caught and losing it all. That being said it is unregulated and would be easy for them to do. I know it was a bad run and probably nothing more. Most people who complain are long term losers. Most people here are winning players. This leads me to beleive its not rigged.
The question I ask is what are players win rates online vs B@M. They are probably comparable to one another. Until there is proof, most of us will flame those who say it is rigged.

[Nalapoint1]

How did you know we were hunting lions. You assumed that since I had a gun and was being charged by a lion , we must be hunting lions.Well you were wrong I was hunting Cape Buffalo.

Actually you were just manipulated into responding the way I wanted someone to respond to make a point.You jumped to a defensive conclusion based only on the information I wanted you to have.Not much different than the "online rigged" responses. For the record, as long as I can make a little money I dont care if it is rigged.

[Sifmole]

Wow -- did you work out how to post that all by yourself?

[Mike_B77]

Very well thought out post. If true, scary..........

That said, A little about me.....I have been playing on Party Poker January 2004....... I did win a seat on the Party Poker Million III and placed pretty decently for a tourny of this size (in the money). My B & M experience is much more vast, but online poker is easier to get to when you live in Atlanta.

During my tenure playing on Party Poker I have played every thing from 2-4 to 15-30 holdem, and up to $600 NL plus tourny's.

Last year I swung up and down like most poker players, and at one point during a weird loosing streak, wrote to Party Poker to say I thought something was fishy.

Break to 2005.......This year began about even for the first 4 months, till April when I could have been Hellen Keller and won.... No matter the format, I was clocking. I cashed out.

Since May 5th, I have been getting dished bad beat after bad beat. Examples
-On big blind, medium pocket pair, flop set, anly to be beat buy a guy who flops bigger set......
- Flop two pair, and get beat by someone on a flush draw catching 4 to the flush on river eventho he is being raised aggressively. This happened to me 3 tourny's in a row the same day...........

Do I have scientific proof that Party Poker software is flawed or worse someone is manipulating it? No....... Do if feel like there are modes the software goes into for ea. player, that will either assist his hand or hinder it, and that there are certain things that trigger one mode vs. another? Yes. I average enough hands online to spot trends ( Like Jacks and 7's many times flop or show up on the board together at Party Poker).

When I wrote to Party Poker during and after this past 3 week debacle, they try to sugar coat things, and reassure that they are monitored by the Govt. of Gibralter and independant auditors and that the systems they use are the most sophisticated that they ensure fairplay and true randomness...............

To this I say that my neighborhood kids could whip the army Gibralter would put on the field of battle........

The auditors are not Price Waterhouse or Arthur Anderson....

Any software can be manipulated no matter the encryption, especially if it has hooks and triggers built in......

Suffice to say that I will no longer partake in online poker. Bricks and mortar for me where my record darn good, and all I have to worry about is the guys around the table.

I know some will say this post is sour grapes and that loosing streaks are just a part of poker..... If you were in my shoes after this go around, you would absolutely see me point if you know anything at all about poker is my response.

Good luck all.....

[LargeCents]

[ QUOTE ]
For the record, as long as I can make a little money I dont care if it is rigged.


[/ QUOTE ]

We'll anxiously await your first 150 BB downswing.

[on_thg]

[ QUOTE ]
what can we ... do?

[/ QUOTE ]

Link