Very ugly KK

xorbie · #1 04-14-2005, 02:51 AM

I don't like my line, I don't like it at all. I think the flop is push or fold, but fold felt too weak and push felt too reckless. I figured this way I could charge draws, but there's really no way I'm not going all in anyway, so I feel this doesn't help my implied odds situation.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter

MP3 ($24.75)
CO ($52.13)
Hero ($25.25)
SB ($32.77)
BB ($52.48)
UTG ($8.5)
UTG+1 ($27.04)
UTG+2 ($34.15)
MP1 ($22.5)
MP2 ($39.96)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.1.
UTG calls $0.25, 2 folds, MP1 calls $0.25, MP2 calls $0.25, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.5, SB (poster) calls $1.40, BB calls $1.25, UTG calls $1.25, MP1 calls $1.25, MP2 folds.

Flop: ($7.75) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets $2, UTG calls $2, MP1 folds, Hero raises to $12, SB calls $12, BB calls $10, UTG folds.

Turn: ($45.75) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets $5, Hero pushes, SB calls $11.75, BB calls $6.75.

River: ($69.25) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks.

Final Pot: $69.25

Results in white below: 
SB has Ad 5c (high card, ace).
BB has 3c 3h (three of a kind, threes).
Hero has Ks Kc (three of a kind, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins $69.25.

edge · #2 04-14-2005, 03:28 AM

Well, I'm going to assume that BB had the made flush and was doing one of those dumb things that people like to do at lower limits. Oh well. Folding is probably too weak, and calling is really stupid, especially with another player already in. You don't really have a choice here. I guess I'd play it the same way.

FreakDaddy · #3 04-14-2005, 03:58 AM

With all those pre-flop limpers I'd raise this to at least $2-3. On the flop I like the mini-raise(or mid-range 8-9) here considering the board. Someone may be stupid enough to re-raise you at this level and that would be enough for me to drop this hand. I just don't have the balls to push this on the turn if I'm being bet into again despite the flop action. I'd drop it on the turn.

fuzzbox · #4 04-14-2005, 04:01 AM

Usually the only hands you get action from on this sort of board are a set, the singleton A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], any made flush or possibly top two pair.
I might flat call the flop bet and see the turn for cheap and see what develops. I dont really want to get my stack in here and find that I have two callers, as Im certainly beaten in one spot, and the other is either beating me also, or drawing very live to beat everybody.

I dont know if you should be just "dying" to chase out draws here, because its far from certain that you are ahead. I say flat call (although I might fold this, with a bet and a caller)

xorbie · #5 04-14-2005, 04:24 AM

Yeah, I'm starting to like calling more and more. In that case, I could push a non [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] turn if checked to, and fold if anyone else bets it hard.

fuzzbox · #6 04-14-2005, 04:37 AM

I dont know if Im ecstatic about pushing a non [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] turn if checked to either. You still dont know if you are ahead or not. Im just trying to get to showdown as cheap as possible here I feel. I am just not sure enough to try to pile a lot of cash in the middle on such a super-charged board.

xorbie · #7 04-14-2005, 04:46 AM

But what is going to check to me on this board that beats me? Given that I just smooth called the last bet there is no gaurantee that I'm betting so they can check/raise. I'd say my most likely hand if I just call is a lone high [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. There is no way a set/two pair/flopped flush is going to check to me in the hopes of check/raising.

fuzzbox · #8 04-14-2005, 08:22 AM

Set might check, and might just call. It would be strange for a flush to play the way you describe (flat call flop is ok, but then push the turn if it goes check-check). Its more likely that a made flush would make some sort of value bet. Also, people are addicted to slowplaying, so they might be trying really hard to get somebody to bet.
I dunno, pushing might be ok, but if you get called then I figure you are a goodly amount behind (maybe stone cold dead).
Better to try to induce a river bluff from a one-pair hand worse than yours, than push it in and hope to take it down, or that you only get called by a draw.

Rotating Rabbit · #9 04-14-2005, 09:17 AM

Perfect.

After you've (correctly) raised on the flop, and got called in 2 places, the pot is so big you cant fold, since they have only 25% of the pot left, everyone is committed.

kurto · #10 04-14-2005, 10:30 AM

I know we're all used to this sort of thing at these tables,... but I still laugh when I see what people were playing with.

The button raises 6xbb... the sb looks down at his A5os, I imagine his eyes light up as he quickly calls (he doesn't re-raise his monster because he wants to hide his strength.)

I do have 2 questions:
1) What does it mean: "SB (poster) calls $1.40" by poster? Does that mean the SB is a 2+2er?
2) what does pwn mean? (I know it wasn't used in this thread, but I see it all the time.