When is it cost-prohibitive to rebuy?

Lottery Larry · #1 02-16-2005, 01:06 PM

Is there a point where the amount of chips you get isn't worth the cost of rebuy-add on, if you bust out right before the add on period?

Something I was discussing with someone:
"he busted out on the last hand of level 3 (last rebuy). So he was able to rebuy twice for 1000 each AND do an add-on for 2000 so he started level 4 with 4000. Meanwhile the guy next to ended level 3 with 1025 (couldn't rebuy) but could add-on for a total of 3025. It almost pays off to totally bust out on the last hand if you are sorta low"

How big a stack is required to make rebuying back in worth the cost? Is it a ratio of the average stack in the tourney?

Thanks
LL

CardSharpCook · #2 02-16-2005, 01:24 PM

Lotto, are you familiar with the tourney theory that says that the more chips you have, the less they are worth? If you were given the opotion of buying into a rebuy tourney at the last hand of the rebuy, it would be +ev to take the deal. The chips you are buying are worth more than face value.

Think about this. Your friend has 1000 chips left in a 100 man tourney. This is EXACTLY WHAT HE STARTED WITH. There are 15 people left, 10 get paid. He has to go to work, so he offers to sell his chips for original value to you. Average stack is 6700 and the blinds are 400-800. He is UTG and has just folded his hand. What do you do? WHAT DO YOU DO?

Answer, accept the offer, knowing that you'll likely bust out the next hand, but if you double up, you'll survive 2 more orbitals and have a chance at the money. Hell, you even have a better than avg shot at first place (avg being the shot everyone had in the begining). A typical way to Chop (and considered fair by many) is to divide the pool in half. The first half gets split evenly by all. The second half is divided based on chip count. By this method, you would receive 3.5X what you bought in for.

CSC

Lottery Larry · #3 02-16-2005, 02:08 PM

"Lotto, are you familiar with the tourney theory that says that the more chips you have, the less they are worth?"

Yes, but that doesn't mean that you look at it on a chip-by-chip value basis does it?

"If you were given the opotion of buying into a rebuy tourney at the last hand of the rebuy, it would be +ev to take the deal. The chips you are buying are worth more than face value."
So, ratio of stack sizes has no effect? If you only get 100 chips (for 1/4 the original buy-in cost) when the starting stack was 1000 and the average stack is 10,000 and you are 20 places out of the money, you have a great deal?

"He is UTG and has just folded his hand. What do you do? WHAT DO YOU DO?"

I think this is a misleading example in two ways:
a) most rebuy tourneys don't end the rebuy period within single digits of the money
b) you didn't adjust the stacks for all of the other rebuys that occurred before.

Also, do we have to adjust the cost of the rebuy chips to include your total investment? If the original buy-in was $50 and you spend $50 more in rebuys and $20 in add-on, did your T3000 in final stack cost you $45 ($25 rebuy, $20 add-on) or $120?

"Answer, accept the offer, knowing that you'll likely bust out the next hand, but if you double up, you'll survive 2 more orbitals and have a chance at the money. Hell, you even have a better than avg shot at first place (avg being the shot everyone had in the begining)."
Maybe, but it cost you more to do so. If the bottom 3 places paid 25% of your total investment but 100% of the original buy-in, is it still worth it?

" A typical way to Chop (and considered fair by many) is to divide the pool in half. The first half gets split evenly by all. The second half is divided based on chip count."
I've never heard of this method. If I were the chip leader, would this be a good deal- taking skill out of the equation?

I thought there was some general rule that if you didn't get a certain % amount of the average stack then the rebuy/add-on isn't worth it if you'd busted out. Was I wrong?

Thanks
LL

CardSharpCook · #4 02-16-2005, 02:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I thought there was some general rule that if you didn't get a certain % amount of the average stack then the rebuy/add-on isn't worth it if you'd busted out. Was I wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, this is incorrect. As long as you believe yourself to be more skilled than the average player (and we all do) then it is always correct to re-buy.

The amount you personally have put in does not matter either. It is like calling all-in with a flush draw on the flop when you are getting 3:1 for your money - you are not likely to hit, but you are getting good odds.

CSC