JJ - a big hole in my game?

BruinEric · #1 12-31-2004, 07:33 PM

I've lost the last five JJs and I start getting in the mood to limp PF with this hand. Nonetheless, I am now forcing myself to play exactly per the SSHE Tight Chart.

But maybe I suck post flop? In my latest tank job, I flopped trips, but turn brought the flush for winner -- yet I stilled called down. Maybe those were loose calls?

I don't mean to dump a ton of hands for detailed review. My intent of posting 5 is to allow you to see if there's a PATTERN to my mistakes. Or maybe I make one new mistake each hand?

HAND #1

SB on this hand has played competently thru 30 hands or so. No bad starting cards and appears to know how to play the game.

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: (11 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, MP2 folds, Button raises, SB calls, Hero calls.

River: (15.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 18.50 BB

HAND #2

 Winner of this hand was quite passive post-flop and held weak starting hands over 30 hands sample. 

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. MP3 posts a blind of $0.25. UTG+1 posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG folds, UTG+1 (poster) checks, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 (poster) checks, CO raises, Button calls, Hero 3-bets, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, CO folds, Button calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

River: (9 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11 BB

HAND #3
Went to call-down on turn raise. Should I have even called the River bet? No reads, really.

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO raises, Button folds, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, UTG calls, CO calls.

Flop: (12 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG folds, CO calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, CO folds, Hero calls.

River: (11.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB

HAND #4

 C/R made me passive, but called it down. Should I have dumped? Maybe a RR then dump? 

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, Hero raises, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO folds.

Flop: (11.40 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.70 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

River: (11.70 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14.70 BB

HAND #5

 No reads on this one. Should I have rammed the pot on turn or taken the free river? 

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero raises, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (8.40 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds.

Turn: (5.70 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks.

River: (5.70 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 8.70 BB

Roadstar · #2 12-31-2004, 09:34 PM

First of all I wouldn't worry about losing the last 5 JJs, I played 3,000+ hands and have only been dealt JJ 10 times!

Your hands:

1) You must raise the turn, don't have the fear the flush syndrome just yet, if someone 3 bets you then you just call, you still have 10 outs here! You will improve to a boat about 25% of the time. If you don't get 3 bet then its bet/call at the river. If you do get 3 bet or even capped, you call and check/fold the river unimproved (making the crying call if you must)

2) Play is ok, debatable whether you bet the river, personally I think its HU so I would bet at the river and fold to a raise. If villain wins w/ Ax so be it, put a note on him and hopefully his stack will slowly come to you over time.

3) Sorry this is a horrible hand, when raised at the turn you can probably fold because you only have 2 outs w/ no other draws. Your chances of improving is 5% which is close enough to nil. If you really can't do this bet/fold at the turn, then check/fold the river at least!

4) You can 3 bet the flop w/ overpair and no raise preflop, villain could have A9 or even a flush draw (although you shouldn't be pumping the flush draw to begin w/) Of course, villain could have hit a set, in which case, he will cap the flop. Then it becomes a check/fold at the turn unless you improve. GIVEN you didn't do that, bet out the turn and fold to a raise, the A is a scare card, if raised, you KNOW you're beat and let it go. STOP check/calling to see a river if you think you're beat. (BTW where is the C/R you mentioned?). At the river, rarely if ever call if there is a bettor and caller in front of you (unless you got the nuts then you raise or call if you got 2nd or 3rd nuts).

5) Um this one depends on your reads. But I would bet the turn and fold to a raise.

So in general this is my opinion:

- JJs are hard to play
- JJs are hard to improve at the turn and river
- therefore, keep betting if you think you're ahead, fold to a raise in general. Consider whether you picked up additional draws (straight, flush etc).

Hope this helps

BTW I'm no expert, I suppose guys like ShillX and Entity will tell you if I'm right.