I need a mentor (lc)

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I'm in a bad rut, and one of you guys has to talk me out of it. ...
Then I took a shot at $50s and went on some weird kind of long-term tilt, doing just plain dumb, undisciplined stuff, back through the $25s and all the way down to $300 in the account. You know -- "call his raise anyway, see what he has, damn he had it", etc.

I have the grey matter to beat the game, but I often lack the patience. My day job earns me a comfortable six figures, so it's hard to take the dollars seriously at $25NL, which is definitely part of my problem. But I just can't buy the "move up now, you'll take the game more seriously" line, for obvious reasons (i.e., what if, in fact, I SUCK?). The day job is also hard work, and I have a family to support, so time is limited....

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Sounds like you've already identified some things you need to work on. If you can't take 25NL seriously, then you're definitely not playing with scared money (that should help you win). If you can't consistently beat 25NL, moving up to 50 or 100NL won't make things easier. It sounds like you have a problem with patience. Don't expect every session to be a winning one. All you can do is make the best decisions. Remember that even if you do make the correct decisions, you are not always going to win money. Forgot about money lost. Make the correct decisions and everything else will work itself out.

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I think this is the best advice. From your post, it sounds like you're thinking of the money a lot. Don't. It really is true that you can't play poker well if you're thinking of the money. You have to think about poker as making decision--the right ones hopefully. Whether you're playing 25NL or 1000NL, you should be making the right decisions. It doesn't sound like you are, so that's what you should focus on. Whenever I find myself thinking about the actual money it always screws me up. My thought process: "Man, this is a hell of a nice pot. Having another $500 in my bankroll would be real nice. OK, I'll call because I want this money." Notice no thoughts about whether or not it was the right decision. Don't think about the money. Ever.

Just as a related aside, this is why bad beats don't bother me anymore: I know I played it right and he played it wrong. The thing that really affects me is putting my money in with the worst hand when I shouldn't have--making the wrong decision.

[nolvicrudie]

Been lurking for quite a while just for reading but I'm in a similar boat. I have focused primarily on bonuses as a way to practice and still make decent $$. Also, you are probably busy with work, kids, etc.; set a goal that is worthwhile. I paid for a Disney vacation for my family and I hope to pay for Christmas for everyone while maintaining enough of a roll to continue to play and learn.

[ghostface]

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Reduce variance.

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GG!

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Been lurking for quite a while just for reading but I'm in a similar boat. I have focused primarily on bonuses as a way to practice and still make decent $$. Also, you are probably busy with work, kids, etc.; set a goal that is worthwhile. I paid for a Disney vacation for my family and I hope to pay for Christmas for everyone while maintaining enough of a roll to continue to play and learn.

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I actually think this is terrible advice. Don't set any kind of goal other than playing your best poker--making the right decisions. Your money winnings will fluctuate from week to week and month to month. Just don't make any mistakes, especially big ones. If you never make a mistake, you'll have plenty of money.

[KKrAAAzy88s]

As much as everyone says the money shouldn't matter, in the end it really does b/c that is how we are wired.

I (now) play in the 1/2NL level and some days when I am up, let's say just as an example, it's $400 (which is two buy ins). My roommate plays .10/.25NL and will win $50 and be disappointed with the results b/c its so small comapred to what I win, but in reality it's the same. I try to explain this to him, but of course he wants to see the $400 in his bankroll too.

Same with going to the casino. I used to be scared playing $10 blackjack/craps/roulette/whatever game because $100 meant a lot to me at the time. Now, since I have a bankroll from poker $100 at the blackjack table is a lot easier to lose than it was before. Now I'd be more willing to take chances b/c "it's only $10". (*note that I only play table games for entertainment value and I'm expecting to lose it and I'm "paying" for my free double jack and coke.)

So, maybe you do need to move to a higher level where money does mean something to you and it'll help you make a better decision rather than saying "Ah, I'll just call to see what he has, it's only $XX." When someone puts you all in for a full stack that is meaningful to you it makes it tougher to just call and see what he has.

Same thing goes for those of us who play the .01/.02 games just for fun and play every hand. It may be 100bbs, but it's _only_ $2.

For Derick,
I feel like my game is a lot better since I've moved up, but I've also been working on it for a while and have since switched from FR to 6max. I also don't four table (as much) anymore and try to really focus on the situation better. Again, probably b/c I'm adverse to losing a few buy ins especially when those buy ins can pay for "a better lifestyle" like TWP said. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

patience is a virtue...

The goal should be to play correctly. That's the part you control and you can only worry about what you control. You can't blame the cards or the dealer or even the other player. You saw the cards, you know what he could have, and you made your decision. So, the goal is to play as perfectly as possible. Look at the odds. Look at the bets. Think about the play, the position, the probability. The try to make the most perfect decision possible.

However, the monetary steps are objectives by which you can measure the success of working to meet your goals. That's the key. If you set steps to get to X level, then you start sequentially planning your progress. And if you have a setback, then you have a trigger to help you make that decision as well.

[jjb108]

People play for different reasons. Some want action. Others will keep score via the BB/100 hands. Some in total dollars.

I'd watch out for real life interfering in Poker. Bad day a work could end up in bad run at the tables.

[PinkSteel]

In spite of my promise to TWP to stop posting on my own thread, I'll post one more to (hopefully) close it and say thanks for the feedback.

It became clear to me just reading replies that there were things in the last couple of months I stopped doing, things that helped me stay on my game:

1. I stopped reviewing PokerTracker for leaks, trends, etc.
2. I stopped posting hands on the boards
3. Most importantly, as everyone has said, I stopped focusing on not making mistakes, and instead started thinking about the dollars. Of course that's the natural thing to do. But as Schoonmaker says in POP, the natural thing to do in poker is to LOSE.

So I'm going to follow your advice and not sweat the bucks, just think about playing correctly, keep posting, and just see where it goes. I love playing, I'll be here for a while.

Oh, and I'm definitely going to reduce variance.

[SmackinYaUp]

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Been lurking for quite a while just for reading but I'm in a similar boat. I have focused primarily on bonuses as a way to practice and still make decent $$. Also, you are probably busy with work, kids, etc.; set a goal that is worthwhile. I paid for a Disney vacation for my family and I hope to pay for Christmas for everyone while maintaining enough of a roll to continue to play and learn.

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I actually think this is terrible advice. Don't set any kind of goal other than playing your best poker--making the right decisions. Your money winnings will fluctuate from week to week and month to month. Just don't make any mistakes, especially big ones. If you never make a mistake, you'll have plenty of money.

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I disagree. Goals are a good thing if you are healthy about it. Setting a bankroll mark or a withdrawal mark helps you focus on making the best decisions because you know that constant bluffing and chasing will greatly increase the time it takes to reach the finish line.

If you compare that 50BB bet you just made to a new cd player for your disney trip and that 100bb pot you just lost to a tank of gas, then yes, its a bad thing.