Hand vs Josh. / Sthief / Moderator of doom

DeathDonkey · #1 12-17-2005, 03:25 AM

5 handed, one fold, I raise T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] folded to Josh in the BB who calls.

Flop is 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and I get checkraised, I call.

Turn is 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Josh bets and I raise (what should I do if he 3 bets and should I have 3 bet the flop instead? Anyone think I should just call down?). He calls.

River is 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and I check behind. Who likes a bet here?

Maybe a boring hand but any comments appreciated,
DeathDonkey

Lmn55d · #2 12-17-2005, 03:44 AM

don't like the turn raise at all. It just lets him fold 5x and 6x. Now if you don't think he would check/call or bet the river with these hands thats not really a problem and you'd rather him fold his 5 outer. If you think he'd check/call or bet the river with those hands you really want him in

Thats also a flop some guys like to checkraise Arag on. Arag has 3 outs against you so if you don't think josh is gonna bet or call the river with arag (which he wont) then him folding that is fine.

You gotta fold to a 3bet but you sacrifice some 2-out equity which sucks slightly.

Flop 3bet is good if you think he will call down with his 5x and 6x hands thinking you 3bet for free card or something like that. If he will do this I don't think he's gonna call the river so 3betting only gets you one more sb over calling down (depending on what josh does on the river with a pair of 5s or 6s)

I just call down all the way and hope he bets or calls the river with a small pair

Danenania · #3 12-17-2005, 03:48 AM

Seems like a bad time for the free SD raise. You often make him fold when he's drawing slim and would have bet the river, and lose your shot at a 2-outer when he 3-bets. I'd just call down.

Danenania · #4 12-17-2005, 03:49 AM

Lol. We rule.

Lmn55d · #5 12-17-2005, 03:49 AM

fo shizzle

Trix · #6 12-17-2005, 03:52 AM

I 3bet the flop, but if I wait till turn turn then I valuebet the river aswell. Fold if CRed.
I think he 3bets you on the turn if he has the Q.
Also think he may bet out on the river with XXhh or 6x.

#7 12-17-2005, 04:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I 3bet the flop, but if I wait till turn turn then I valuebet the river aswell. Fold if CRed.
I think he 3bets you on the turn if he has the Q.
Also think he may bet out on the river with XXhh or 6x.

[/ QUOTE ]
Trix,

I agree with you when you say that the OP should 3-bet the flop. Calling is also a viable option. A turn raise is pointless.

Also, don't you think Josh would be spewing if he 3-bet the turn with only a queen?

Trix · #8 12-17-2005, 05:05 AM

Depends how much DD free SD raise or semibluff

DeathDonkey · #9 12-17-2005, 06:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Depends how much DD free SD raise or semibluff

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the big thing for me. I don't need to have a pair here. I agree here he might fold a 5 and I'll be sad, but plenty of times he'll fold a 5 and I'll be thrilled. I can't get away with that crap if I don't have a pair at least some of the time.

That said you guys are probably right, that's my default against aggro unknowns (call down) but maybe I outthought myself being against a good player.

-DeathDonkey

sthief09 · #10 12-17-2005, 06:33 PM

out of curiosity, how many rivers were you betting? I think your turn raise is good if you plan to follow through on the river. this just happened to be among the worse cards in the deck. raising somewhat lightly on the turn (ie value raising without top pair) sets you up for some bluff and semi-bluff raises, since anyone paying attention will realize you have a wider range than just top pair, an overpair, or a set, which provides protection for your pure and semi bluffs. if you are bluffing the right amount, you are goign to get good value the times I have a worse pair or even A high, or make me fold incorrectly. basically, you put me in a situation where even if I play it perfectly, you are still maximizing value from me. it puts me in such a bind that I will have to stop checkraising flops because you will outplay me so badly on later streets. other plays might fear checkraising bottom pair or draws on the flop vs you because they know they will be punished when you have the goods.

I would also like some opinions on my turn-river play after we get more comments on your play.