Mass defection from the AFL-CIO

[lehighguy]

There is a real problem when a company can't fire people. This is what most unions I know push for. Either that or they make it so much paperwork to fire someone its not worth the managers time.

This is what's its like at my mom's job. I'm convinced most of them would be fired immediately without the union or if it was private rather then government. They really are the biggest bunch of incompetent and thieves I've ever seen.

Moreover, the biggest problem I've seen with collective bargaining is that it homogenizes workers. After all, your pay and perks are based on the collective, not your individual effort. Why stay late, why take initiative, why do not goof of if you think you can get away with it. After all, the union will protect you. And you can't get ahead if you want because its not like the boss is gonna negotiate your pay with you, they are gonna do it with the collective.

In my moms office she catches a lot of flak because, quite frankly, she does work. She shows up on time, she stays late if she hasn't finished the tasks she has, she takes initiative. She gives a damn about completing the tasks she's been assinged.

The other girls won't give her a break. They are always telling her that if she works hard they are all going to have to work hard. As if collective laziness will somehow make them all better off.

It reminds me of how kids at school would give me a hard time for breaking the curve in physics. But then again most of those do nothings that were bad at school were the working class of tommorrow.

[FishHooks]

This is why the capitalism yeilds more production, you shouldn't be paid on how the group preforms, your carrer is not a team sport. This is also why the education system is really bad, all 10 year teachers make the same (in most areas) it doesn't matter if your a good teacher or not, this really hurts the education. I think this is another good example like you gave.

[Dov]

[ QUOTE ]
God help the working man.

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Yes, because he is a helpless sod. God forbid you should encourage the working man to make something of himself and his dreams. Better he should hope for a .50 raise every 3 years thanks to a union deal.

Good thing YOU are there to help him, because obviously God isn't doing his fair share, in your opinion.

[ QUOTE ]
People aren't commodities.

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Dictionary.com

Commodity:

Something useful that can be turned to commercial or other advantage: “Left-handed, power-hitting third basemen are a rare commodity in the big leagues” (Steve Guiremand).

Isn't it interesting how their FIRST definition includes a person as a commodity?

Believe what you want. That doesn't change reality.

[ QUOTE ]
Who's discouraging wealth-building? Unions want companies to make more profits (there would be more dues, right?). Then, not through some fairy tale trickle down effect, but through solid collective bargaining can employees receive a decent living. Are you denying them the ability to maximize THEIR wealth-building and independence? Or do you only support the owners?

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate to break it to you buddy, but laborers do not get wealthy. Owners do.

You are promoting the laborer mentality in the working class. I am saying to give them incentives to be the best they can. They will always do better than being spoonfed for the rest of their lives.

If they CHOOSE not to do better, then the company that employs them shouldn't be penalized by leeches who just suck more money out of the company than necessary. (Unions)

Even by your own admission, the union needs to make companies pay for its own dues. This is not labor that the company has purchased. It is a FINE.

Ridiculous.

[superleeds]

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Anyway I would hate to see unions across the country raising consumer prices at Wal-Mart and all the other chains

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Companies raise prices not unions. Companies also crush opposition which is easier if you don't have to pay a decent wage. Your getting what you want MMMMMM, lets hope Wal-mart consult with you on a fair price when they can't compare with other retailers.

[superleeds]

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I think Wal Mart closed one of its huge big box stores because the employees voted to unionize. Didn't even bother with scabs just closed the whole store and took a loss.

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And you think this admirable?

[FishHooks]

very much so

[bobman0330]

Hamish, which union are you with?

[MMMMMM]

[ QUOTE ]
Companies raise prices not unions. Companies also crush opposition which is easier if you don't have to pay a decent wage. Your getting what you want MMMMMM, lets hope Wal-mart consult with you on a fair price when they can't compare with other retailers.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it would be fair to suppose that unions indirectly cause prices to be raised.

Anyway, if what you suggest might happen, actually comes to pass: I'll just buy more stuff over the Internet;-)

Not hamburgers, but things like razor blades, etc. There are lots of cheap places to buy things online if you look around a bit;-)

[adios]

Since this thread has gotten a little off topic. Has Walmart opened for business in your country? Just curious if you have had a chance to check it out (I rarely find my way into a Walmart). I would also note that Walmart hasn't killed it's competition in the U.S. either. Target for one is doing quite well.

[bobman0330]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyway I would hate to see unions across the country raising consumer prices at Wal-Mart and all the other chains

[/ QUOTE ]

Companies raise prices not unions. Companies also crush opposition which is easier if you don't have to pay a decent wage. Your getting what you want MMMMMM, lets hope Wal-mart consult with you on a fair price when they can't compare with other retailers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Companies, not unions, raise wages too. What's your point? Unions force them, or try to force them, to do both. The only take credit for the wage increase though.