A poker "buddy" killed himself today

[Dov]

[ QUOTE ]
Though it would infuriate many players I would like to see gambling handled like drinking is. When a guy in a bar has had too much to drink often they will stop serving him. I don't know how that would be done with playing poker if it could be done at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would love to see someone try to throw out Gus Hansen because they think he's tilting!

What about all of the players who just act stupid and aren't?

I think that this is a terrible idea. People are responsible for their actions. If they don't want to believe that, then that's their own problem.

If they don't know any better, then that's one thing. But every casino I've ever been in has GA signs all over the place.

What would my recourse be if some floor person told me I couldn't play anymore because he thought I was on tilt and made me quit a good game?

This whole protecting people from themselves is silly. Either you are free to decide things for yourself or you're not.

Don't keep changing the rules in the middle.
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I know, you can institute a test that people can take to get their poker license. Then you can present your license at the table and get a ticket if you go on tilt.
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Why not just seize all of the guy's assets and arrest him until he calms down and can't hurt himself anymore?

Where would you draw the line? What would you say when others want to draw the line deeper than you do?

[CaptSensible]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Though it would infuriate many players I would like to see gambling handled like drinking is. When a guy in a bar has had too much to drink often they will stop serving him. I don't know how that would be done with playing poker if it could be done at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would love to see someone try to throw out Gus Hansen because they think he's tilting!

What about all of the players who just act stupid and aren't?

I think that this is a terrible idea. People are responsible for their actions. If they don't want to believe that, then that's their own problem.

If they don't know any better, then that's one thing. But every casino I've ever been in has GA signs all over the place.

What would my recourse be if some floor person told me I couldn't play anymore because he thought I was on tilt and made me quit a good game?

This whole protecting people from themselves is silly. Either you are free to decide things for yourself or you're not.

Don't keep changing the rules in the middle.
----------------------------------------------------------

I know, you can institute a test that people can take to get their poker license. Then you can present your license at the table and get a ticket if you go on tilt.
--------------------------------------

Why not just seize all of the guy's assets and arrest him until he calms down and can't hurt himself anymore?

Where would you draw the line? What would you say when others want to draw the line deeper than you do?

[/ QUOTE ]

Oy Vey. No one said anything about people tilting. We're talking about problem gamblers here. I also said that there is realistically no way to really implement this. It's a sentiment. The only thing I can do is walk away from a table where I feel there is someone playing who shouldn't be. GENERALLY these people tend to be drinking, older, unhappy, downtrodden in their attire and losing. When they lose their chips, reload, lose their chips, and reload I don't feel comfortable taking their money. I have a saying "Some things are more important than poker". It's not true for everyone, that's fine. That's just me.

[MicroBob]

technically the casinos do have certain regulations where a player can be forced to stop if it is obvious that they have a problem.
it was in the video and orientation stuff when i became a BK dealer in tunica for a few mths.
'notify your supervisor' and 'heres how you identify a problem-gambler'.

after you're actually dealing on the floor though it becomes pretty obvious that you aren't REALLY supposed to notify the floor every time you suspect a player has 'gambled too much'.
But they have to say such things (and put up the various signs and so forth) to make it LOOK like they are actually trying.
These are the people that keep the business so profitable.

they can point to all the little PSA's and other measures in an effort to keep the anti-gambling off their back just a little bit.
"See. We WANT our problem gamblers to get help. Look at all the little signs we put up around the place."
It's just total P.R. and that's it.


In the break-room one night a friend of mine told me that he had a REALLY bad, drunk player at his table who clearly was one of these addicted-gambler types.
He told me "So...I told the floor-person because I know that's what I'm supposed to do" with kind of a wry smile.
I said "Oh yeah?? I bet that was received pretty well."
He said, "Yup. He just laughed and thought I was joking about it. He was watching the whole time of course and LOVING this guy's business."


That's the casino world for you.

They really don't give a crap about you.
They care about your money.



Other thought - I believe that in Missouri they have laws that you can only buy-in for a $500 max in any 24-hour period. This kind of addresses the issue being talked about here.
Not sure how it affects the poker-room though. If this is true for their poker-rooms too then it would be kind of difficult to have a 20/40 game I would think (or a higher stakes no-limit game).


Finally - I'm very sorry for the OP's loss.
I do think Dov was a bit harsh in his initial reply.
My first thought when I read Dov's reply was "What is there NOT to be a little freaked-out about in this situation."
a guy he knew fairly decently killed himself.
That does take you aback when it happens.


Regarding maturity and experience dealing with various tragedies:
I'm 34 and have had very little experience with such things.
Guy I knew in H.S. killed himself when I was 16 but we weren't that close.
Son of an employer and a guy I worked with for a year killed himself a couple years later but he was always pretty drunk and we were never that close.

I have yet to experience the pain of someone close to me dying. For 34 y.o. I think this is a bit unusual.

[Piemaster]

Of course, the really big reason that this is unworkable is that as soon as Casinos are expected to do this, within a week somebody will have a big loss and try to sue the casino. They will produce a couple of 'witnesses' who will claim they saw them and they were obviously on tilt/drunk and the casino did nothing to stop them.

The casino will be found guilty, a string of other cases will follow and suddenly all the poker rooms close.

[zuluking]

To make things worse, it was "private" or backroom game where he was playing $1,000 NL. Here in Louisiana, backroom games are quite common. I play in a backroom about 50% of the time. No rake, but you're on your own as far as security is concerned. Yet another reason I train in the martial arts everyday.

[QuickLearner]

I'm sorry for your loss of a friend. He was probably a pretty nice guy whose mountain of trouble became too much for him. Say a prayer for his family.

[BluffTHIS!]

I'm probably 20 years older than most of you who post here. I play poker for a living and almost exclusively online now. The sad tale you describe has been witnessed by me on more than one occasion over the years concerning live play. I think that most of you who play mostly online or in nice casinos do not realize how it was before online rooms and riverboat casinos brought poker to virtually everywhere. I learned to play poker in the backs of pool rooms and bars and in private houses. I made some good friends and met many interesting, even if often sleazy, people in such venues. As a Christian I didn't really relate well to a lot of the lowlifes, but they were characters. I've played with drug dealers, pimps, politicians, bookies, hustlers of all stripes and lots of everday joes. I've seen many very degenerate gambling types over the years and all the symptoms and consequences that go with them. It's a very unpretty sight.

Being anonymous players online, we of course have no idea with whom we are playing. Most of them are everyday joes, pro-wannabes and some sick gambling degenerates. Since as a Christian I won't cheat or hustle degenerate types to play, I have never had a problem playing poker professionally because I view it as providing entertainment. I have also often tried to counsel degenerate types over the years, but such well meant words mostly fall on deaf ears.

There is an underside to the gambling world, just like you read about in poker books about the "old days". Some unfortunate committing suicide is one of the unpleasant realities of that underside.

Most of the reason I play online now is because it is more profitable to do so at the bigger limits available online now and because of multitabling. But part of it is so that I don't have to put up with private game smoke, don't take the risk of getting robbed, don't have to carry large amounts of cash around and thus a gun also to protect myself as in the past, and also don't have to associate with certain types of people whose company I don't care for.

Most of you won't ever have to deal with this as long as online poker doesn't get busted somehow, or all the casinos that are spread across the U.S. don't get closed down, but you are going to meet some degenerate types still in cardrooms, and who are not bookie/drug dealer types who can afford to lose it. You are going to welcome their loose action but really won't be able to spot the signs of degeneracy very well since you won't really know their true financial position or be good enough friends with them for them to confide in you. So, all you can do is occasionally ask someone you think might have a problem to lunch and ask them how they're doing and offer some pointers if they're willing to learn, or advise them to get help if they are degenerate. Just don't ever beat up on yourself if you don't see the signs or if your advice goes unheeded, which it mostly will. All of these people have friends and family too, and if they can't recognize how serious a situation someone they know or love is in, you most likely won't be able to either.

[CaptSensible]

Great post. Very well said.