A question for Christians AND atheists

[imported_luckyme]

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I simply put forth a reason for believing in Christ, since one was requested.

[/ QUOTE ] thanks Riddick. I overread your statement in more general terms. It's encouraging to see some realization that there is a lot of different-strokes-for-different-folks at play in this arena.

Evolvedform, I am in no way offended by your atheism, but purely from this thread...

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Finally, after realizing that there is no God I can live a fruitful life.


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Faith and religion were invented by people

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As I say, thank God there isn't one (God).

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Because life without afterlife is awfully pointless.

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Why are you so sure life has a point? Nothing about it makes much sense. Look at one aspect of it: the self. There is rationality and there is irrationality. All religion focuses only on the former and ignores the latter or calls it "evil." But why would God give us this "evil" aspect? Why the desires for power and sex, greed and lust, and all these other unspeakables which never cease bubbling inside of us? This is man, honestly. If we are made in the image of God, what kind of monster must God be? Our rationality is by no means our foremost means of action. We act in ways that make no sense, and so does the world. That's why trying to make sense of it never amounts to a sensible answer. I'm not asking you to like it, just to accept it.

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I a) try to do the right things, and b) drink a cup of wine and eat a loaf of bread the first Sunday of each month in preparation for my inevitable death, hopefully many decades from now.

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Hiya Riddick,

Regarding your point a) and b):

a) most commendable assuredly, I am just hoping you are not misguided as to what is good (example of monstruous misguidedness: the behaviour you attribute to your god)

b) now, here I must be missing something, I would appreciate your elaboration on how a piece of bread and a cup of wine, the first sunday of each month, prepares you for your inevitable death. By the way, I try to drink a bottle wine everyday and and eat bread 3 or 4 days per week. Will this be helpful to?

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would appreciate your elaboration on how a piece of bread and a cup of wine, the first sunday of each month, prepares you for your inevitable death.

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Are you familiar with "Do this in remembrance of me"?

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By the way, I try to drink a bottle wine everyday and and eat bread 3 or 4 days per week. Will this be helpful to?

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Are you doing it in remembrance of Him?

[imported_luckyme]

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Evolvedform, you talk of intellectual honesty, and then purport your absolute certainty of something that you can in no way be certain of, that is, if you were actually intellectually honest.

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It all depends on the context and in an atheist/theist comparison it can never be anything but apples and oranges. There is a reason it is called 'faith' and major xtrian philosophers talk about 'leap of faith'.

Since an atheist has that ingrediant missing in their deliberations and deducing there are several ways to be as certain of the non-existance as one can be certain of anything. But it's impossible for a 'faith-based' viewpoint to see it as certainty, and if I was a theist I'd be saying "hey, where's the faith part in your weighting" or some such.

Naturally, if I'd made the leap I'd be just as certain .. that's what the leap is supposed to do, that IS what it means... you accept it, period.

I'm not referring to the thinking and weighing that may gets one to the edge of the abyss and consider leaping it, that can be thought out and there's a poster earlier in this thread that sounds like he's on the edge. But the leap is the leap and it's a necessary part of having 'faith'.

Riddick, the OP asked a question and I answered it. Those are my opinions, and not unfounded at that. If what I said makes you uncomfortable that was not my primary intention. However, I don't think it could hurt.

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would appreciate your elaboration on how a piece of bread and a cup of wine, the first sunday of each month, prepares you for your inevitable death.

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Are you familiar with "Do this in remembrance of me"?

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By the way, I try to drink a bottle wine everyday and and eat bread 3 or 4 days per week. Will this be helpful to?

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Are you doing it in remembrance of Him?

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Ah! Ok thanks, I do know about those words attributed to JC. I got a bit confused with the first sunday of each month and thought it had to be something else. By the way, would it not be preferable to do it as often as possible, if not constantly if it is that therapeutic or valuable vis-a-vis a good death.

And no, I don't do it in memory of him. Moot point any way, since what threw me off was the "1st sunday of each month" bit. I do it because I enjoy it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Why are you so sure life has a point? Nothing about it makes much sense. Look at one aspect of it: the self. There is rationality and there is irrationality. All religion focuses only on the former and ignores the latter or calls it "evil." But why would God give us this "evil" aspect? Why the desires for power and sex, greed and lust, and all these other unspeakables which never cease bubbling inside of us? This is man, honestly. If we are made in the image of God, what kind of monster must God be? Our rationality is by no means our foremost means of action. We act in ways that make no sense, and so does the world. That's why trying to make sense of it never amounts to a sensible answer. I'm not asking you to like it, just to accept it.


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Briefly...

Animals murder, steal, "rape", kill their own, and yet they are rational, because to not do so would threaten their survival, which is their only "meaning". Clearly humans descend from the animal order, yet clearly we are no longer animals. Yet the objectivist or the "realist" view denies this and purports, basically, that we are animals. That I do not like nor accept.

Evolvedform, I did not question your honesty until you questioned the honesty of the Christian faith.