Another wait till the turn hand

Hey Pax, I in my reply to istewart I more adequately explain my reasoning. Would like to hear what you think.

[istewart]

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Umm his lead on the flop basically tells me nothing.

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Exactly! Thus you can raise here and not fear being behind often enough that raising has no purpose. But many players will not lead unimproved overcards on two streets in multiple players, SO IF he leads the turn you are very likely behind and have little to protect.

[SlantNGo]

I must have been a worse chronic than you... I'm glad all the wait till turn threads here have brought attention to my leak.

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I'm a chronic wait-for-turn kind of guy, but even I'm raising the flop here. Laying 13:2 is enough to give gutshots and Ax bad odds. Plus there are practically no clean cards to come on the turn to warrant a raise then.

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We are in a big pot. If raising the turn gives me the best chance at winning it, I will raise the turn. In this case, raising the flop is likely the best way to protect our vulnerable hand. So I don't at all get this "maybe we're behind the preflop raiser, let's raise the flop when it's cheap" stuff.

[Paxosmotic]

Here's what I think: Lurk more. You have almost 500 posts in a month, which I'm sure is impressive to 3 or 4 people on here who care about that kind of thing, but not me. I've seen you outright butcher key concepts such as slowplaying and raising for value in other threads, and now you're so busy barking in this thread that you're not listening to anyone else. Settle down. That's what I think.

Pretty cold dude. Not posting a lot to impress anyone. I am just trying to learn and help others. But maybe some of what you say is right, and I will try to be more focused in my posts. I just like to explore some of the subtlties of hands that might seem obvious but might not be, and I think here or there I have misworded one or two things that people have jumped on. Probably I have been wrong on some of them. And I realize I have been confrontational as a newcomer and that is not appropriate.

Anyways I would like to continue to post as it is helpful for me, so I hope that I have not angered you too much. I think you are very insightful with this stuff and I will want your input if I ever post hands.

But it would really like to further explore your reasoning for not waiting to raise the turn b/c you are afraid of the PFR having a better hand. Maybe some math or something. Would be interesting I think.

I would raise this flop every time, and I know why I would. That doesn't mean anything because I'm a newb.
What would help me greatly (and a few others) would be if someone posted a hand where it was appropriate to 'wait for the turn to raise' - this is what I'm struggling with at the moment.

[hemstock]

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If UTG hadn't raised preflop, I'd wait for all the standard reasons. However, I'd like to find out if he's on AA-99 as cheaply as possible.

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So you are raising for info?

[Paxosmotic]

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If UTG hadn't raised preflop, I'd wait for all the standard reasons. However, I'd like to find out if he's on AA-99 as cheaply as possible.

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So you are raising for info?

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A little bit. For info and protection. We'll call it my Infrotection Raise. Actually we probably won't call it that.

[TomBrooks]

With an ace overcard, a backdoor flush draw, and a chance to knock someone out - I'd raise it.