Drawing to the nut flush on a paired board

SlantNGo · #1 10-24-2005, 07:07 PM

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, Hero raises, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB bets, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, CO calls.

Turn: (8.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero calls, CO raises, BB 3-bets, Hero calls, CO caps, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: (20.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, CO bets, BB calls, Hero raises, CO calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 26.75 BB

So... how did I do? I thought my turn call when it was two back to me was very questionable, drawing to probably 7 outs, and with the possibility of drawing dead.

Also, I hate my river play because now I lose 3 bets to a boat.

bozlax · #2 10-24-2005, 07:12 PM

Read on CO?

Preflop: fine, if you think you can buy the button. Otherwise I just call.

Flop: Raise! It's unlikely anybody has a king, so you've got TPTK. That's going to change the way the turn and river play out.

The turn and river are fine, I think, the way you played the flop.

milesdyson · #3 10-24-2005, 07:15 PM

flop is kind of weird. we're getting 15:1, but i have a hard time thinking none of these players has a king. so really i'm drawing to less than 1.5 outs for my backdoor flush draw most of the time.

fold the flop? weak tight?

SlantNGo · #4 10-24-2005, 07:20 PM

Reads? Nothing out of the usual... both seem just slightly on the loose-passive side but I only had about 10 hands on each at the time. Not total idiots though...

Disconnected · #5 10-24-2005, 07:34 PM

I'd probably limp this pre-flop with a few people already in, but a raise can't be that bad.

On the flop, I'd actually rather not see it rainbow with those callers. With so many, I'm pretty nervous about a king. However, no one has shown anything yet, and gutshots would also have the immediate odds to call. What's all that mean? I think a flop peel is fine, and see what develops.

On the turn, I don't think I could get away from this hand. It certainly looks like there's at least one king out there, probably 2. On the other hand, I wouldn't think you're drawing dead, either. K9 and 99 are reduced possibilities since you hold a 9, and K4 isn't too likely, either.

On the river, I'd bet/call, mostly for the reason you brought up, slightly because even though it's only a bd flush that got completed, I'd hate for CO to bet nervous and check behind (unlikely). Plus, even if they're both still sitting there with 9's (unlikely) and feel they're beat since you came alive on the river, they'd be compelled to pay off a bet.

#6 10-24-2005, 08:10 PM

Probably wouldn't raise preflop, but I'd certainly raise the flop - in addition to the BDFD, pair and OC, another K could give you the best hand as well. Mad value, and a 44, having maybe 3 outs to improve, might fold.

If I'm 3-bet or the BB/CO action goes the same way on the turn I'd have to consider that there's a K out there, but I call down anyway if my draw hits.

The way you played it, the pot was almost 16BB by the time you had to call two on the turn, so it wasn't horrible, even with a cap to come.

Oh, and that river raise: did you get distracted? Finger slip? Only threat of dismemberment from a believable source would keep me from calling with 23BB in the pot, but I sure wouldn't raise after that turn action.

#7 10-24-2005, 10:43 PM

*grunch*
With that many callers already ahead of me on the rainbow flop, there has got to be at least one K ahead of me, I fold, especially when the bet comes from BB who can have any Kx and with people still to act.
I could never be sure I wasn't drawing dead if I made a flush draw on the turn and with that many people in, the action is likely to get heavy (which it did).

SlantNGo · #8 10-24-2005, 11:07 PM

It's a really confusing flop to play, but with the pot that big, I just can't see a fold. We would have to call and re-evaluate on the turn. If the flop bettor also leads the turn, we can be more confident that he has a King. If it's bet and raised to us on the turn, we know we're screwed.

#9 10-24-2005, 11:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It's a really confusing flop to play, but with the pot that big, I just can't see a fold. We would have to call and re-evaluate on the turn. If the flop bettor also leads the turn, we can be more confident that he has a King. If it's bet and raised to us on the turn, we know we're screwed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even with the best turn card, you're still making a decision between calling and folding. IMO Make the decision on the flop.