Clarkmeister theorem checkup, among other things

Rubeskies · #1 12-09-2005, 01:54 AM

Villain is 48/20/1.8
UTG is unknown

My question is two-fold.

1.) Looking back now I think I probably should have 3-bet the turn right?
2.) The way I played it, should I Clarkmeister this river?

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, MP calls, SB folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls, MP calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, MP folds, Hero calls.

River: (10.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero?

kiddo · #2 12-09-2005, 03:38 AM

With those stats u probably should 3bet turn.

What is a clarkmeister? If it is calling a bet, u should do it, specially since u didnt 3bet/got capped on turn.

If it is bet, hope he folds, u shouldnt (of course, it cant be that I guess).

TMFS9 · #3 12-09-2005, 03:40 AM

yeah, I think you must bet/fold the river, and I think 3 betting the turn might be close depending.

Rubeskies · #4 12-09-2005, 03:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]

What is a clarkmeister?

If it is bet, hope he folds, u shouldnt (of course, it cant be that I guess).

[/ QUOTE ]

The Clarkmeister is betting when out of position on the river when the fourth flush card hits if you are planning on calling a river bet anyway.

TMFS9 · #5 12-09-2005, 04:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If it is bet, hope he folds, u shouldnt (of course, it cant be that I guess).

[/ QUOTE ]

It's bet/fold the river because most worst hands will check behind but might call a bet, while better hands will bet. Therefore in this situation IMO check/calling is the worst of your options.

josh1122 · #6 12-09-2005, 04:09 AM

I think this is an easy turn 3bet, your ahead here most of the time and have odds to catch up if not.

Given the way you played it, I think I like check/call the river given that he is rather LAG (But I have never been really comfortable with the Clarkmeister so Im not so sure about this line).

josh1122 · #7 12-09-2005, 04:12 AM

EDIT: [censored] my bad, I read villian is 48/20/1.8 and assume that UTG is the villian.

Why did you refer to someone else as villian when UTG is the only one with action in the hand?

kiddo · #8 12-09-2005, 05:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
It's bet/fold the river because most worst hands will check behind but might call a bet, while better hands will bet. Therefore in this situation IMO check/calling is the worst of your options.

[/ QUOTE ]

I also thought villain had 40/20/2, against such a player I dont like betting this river and folding if he raises. If he is really aggressive he could raise 2pair on river, hoping we fold small flush.

But ok, lets say he is unknown:

A set is a really strong hand, u are saying check-call river is worst option. But isnt not seeing showdown against unknown player with a set headsup worst option?

If we had a read on this player as predictable, ok, I can see a bet-fold. But against unknown?

Isnt clarkmeisters theorem about when we bet all way and river puts 4flush on board? Not when we are raised on turn by a possible flush (but maybe something else)? Im asking, I dont know. (but it seems to make more sense)

Rubeskies · #9 12-09-2005, 05:37 AM

Oops, my mistake.

UTG is the one with the stats, MP is the unknown. Sorry for the confusion.

It is my understanding that the Clarkmeister theorem is betting when the fourth flush card comes regardless of the action, even if you've been raised as long as you were going to call a bet anyway. There are exceptions to the theorem vs. various players and I was wondering if this is one of them.

ArturiusX · #10 12-09-2005, 05:40 AM

Unless I'm up against a habitual bluffer here I play it the same.