Unavoidable bubble burst?

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold the first and push the second.

The idea is that it's generally a bad idea to steal from the really small stacks (unless there's more than one of them) or the really big stacks (unless you are also a really big stack and there is a really small stack). In the second case, Q6s is not a hand I want to go to showdown with against a BB who has a huge incentive to call.

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Durron, folding the first hand is horrible. You dont need fold equity when you have a hand like Q6s headsup. You really need to work harder on learning the true value of hands when headsup, because if you want to fold that you have basically no concept of the value of Q6s.

[45suited]

You agree with Nottom that hand 1 is auto-push though?

Would hand two be bad even without just losing hand one?

edit: oops, just saw your reply to durron regarding hand 1

[curtains]

If you fold hand 1 regularly you are going to butcher your ROI. It's like folding KK UTG on hand 1, it's that bad.

[Shillx]

[ QUOTE ]
You agree with Nottom that hand 1 is auto-push though?

Would hand two be bad even without just losing hand one?

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Folding hand 1 would be terrible. It would be okay if you somehow knew that you would pick up AA next hand and get called, but you can't afford to throw away thin edge to try and exploit later ones since you don't know if there will be a later edge (that is larger). Take the .5% EV right now eventhough it is a high varience prop.

Brad

[Jay36489]

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I'm really shocked at a lot of the responses in this thread.

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Me too. I'm not sure what went on with whoever did the ICM calc, but power tools says 2nd hand is a fold, and my gut instinct would agree...

[45suited]

Thank you for your replies. I was at work today beating myself up over this (not cuz of the measly $22 but because I thought I was an idiot) and actually somehow convinced myself that maybe I should've folded hand one after getting beaten up over pushing it.

Like I said, at the table, I knew that the guy might want to gamble given the size of his stack, but I didn't see how I couldn't push it. I mean, first the guy has to have a hand, next, he still has to beat my hand (which IS above average) IF he calls.

[curtains]

45suited, learn the K+S charts and then youll have no reason to doubt yourself in this situation, and youll realize how absurdly not close it is. You must get out of habit of making the 2nd push though, its especially bad on the bubble.

With 9-10x the BB on the bubble with the others at a similar level, you should generally play extremely tight, tighter than you usually play if it wasnt the bubble.

[45suited]

Thankfully I'm not in the habit of pushing the 2nd hand! I really don't think that I was on tilt (that's not my nature) but normally I wouldn't push that hand. I convinced myself that the two remaining players had stacks close enough to mine that I had lots of FE. (Ummm... maybe that WAS tilt, just not the frustrated, angry form of tilt. Just the rationalizing, stupid form of tilt. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img])

[curtains]

you do have lots of folding equity, just not enough to make it a +ev push.

[johnnybeef]

what are you hoping for on the second push? the blinds? you have almost 10 of them. you are only going to be called by hands that you are behind, the blinds are not that significant yet, and there is a decent chance one of your opponents will make a mistake in the near future.