Amazing Quadruple Check-Raise in 30-60 (long)

[MichaelD]

AMAZING QUADRUPLE CHECK-RAISE IN 30-60

Here is a hand that I played in a 30-60 game at the Bellagio on my most recent trip to Vegas during the week leading up to the Super Bowl.

I had played in the 30-60 game for two days in a row and had booked one good win and one very good win in my two sittings. On my third day in town, I sat down in a 30-60 game that had a good mix of players. I had played with 5 of the players in one or both of my first two sittings on the trip and there was another player I had played with on prior trips. There were also three players whom I have never played against before, and myself to round out the line-up.

Given that I had played tight and pretty well the prior two days, and the fact that there were 5 players whom I had played against in those same settings, I felt I had a decent table image and also felt I was getting a good amount of respect when I entered a pot. I had been playing for an hour or so and had only played a few hands when the following hand came up.

I was in middle position and opened the pot for $60 with K [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] All folded to the small blind who called and the big blind who also called. Both were players I have never played with before.

The flop came 9 [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] . The small blind checked, the big blind checked, and I bet. The small blind check-raised and made it $60 and the big blind also check-raised and made it $90. I thought for a few seconds and decided to just call with the intention of hitting it hard on the turn. The small blind also called the additional $30. The pot now contained $450.

The turn brought the 2 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] making the board 9 [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] . All in all, I felt this was a really good board for two red Kings. The small blind checked, followed by the big blind who also checked! Hmmmn - Given the fact that I was check-raised on the flop by both the small and the big blind, I was a bit confused by them both checking again. Given that there were very few legitimate possible draws my opponents could be playing, I felt it was more likely that one opponent had an over pair and the other had a hand such as A9 suited. I felt the only other threatening hand I was possibly up against could be a set. I was hard pressed to really believe this as the pot was pretty large on the turn and I felt someone possessing a set would bet into me.

I went ahead and bet the turn. The small blind check-raised again making it $120 and the big blind followed suit and also check-raised again making the pot $180! I had now been check-raised four total times in this hand!! I had been check-raised on two different streets by two opponents with a board of 9 high with no straights or flushes possible; so much for the respect I felt I had been getting at the table. I started to think they might both have pairs larger than the board. I still could not believe the big blind would play a set that way but, upon further reflection, I could see the small blind maybe playing a set that way. Given that the big blind three-bet the pot on the flop, the small blind could have been thinking he could maybe check-raise his set on the turn - with his thoughts being that the big blind instead of myself would lead the turn betting - based on the big blind's check-3 bet on the flop. There was also the obvious possibility I was against Aces, but I felt Queens or Jacks were more likely as I was not re-raised pre-flop.

Anyway... Not knowing what the heck I had gotten myself into, I pondered for almost an entire minute and finally decided to call. I felt the pot was large enough and that I may still very well have the best hand. Deep down inside, I was really hoping to see one of the remaining Kings on the river, just in case I needed it. This was now a very big pot and it was only going to get bigger on the river, regardless of what came. The small blind called the big blind's three bet without hesitation. The pot now contained $990. For whatever it was worth, I definitely put one opponent QQ, with the most likely candidate being the small blind. Given the way he had played the hand, I still had no idea what the big blind held. He likely held AA or a set, neither of which I could beat without hitting one of my two outs. His other possible holdings were an overpair of 1010, JJ, or even QQ, and against all of these potential hands, I was a huge favorite. He could also conceivably have 97 suited, which I could beat if a King, 3 or 2 came.

The river brought the A [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] making the final board 9 [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] A [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] .

The small blind led at the pot and the big blind raised. I now had an obviously easy fold. I folded without hesitation and the small blind just called the big blind's raise.

I almost choked when I saw the big blind turn over AQ off-suit. I could not believe the way he had played the hand and I felt for sure he was easily beaten by the small blind who surely had a minimum of Aces up. I almost fell off my chair when the small blind also turned over AQ off-suit. To add insult to injury, the big blind then muttered something to the small blind that he felt I also had a big Ace but couldn't take the heat on the river. I just sat there silent and completely and totally dumbfounded, trying to actually comprehend that the big bling actually believed that I would take all that heat on the flop and the turn, and then when I hit my Ace, actually fold on the river!! He was actaully BRAGGING to the small blind the with his river raise, he likely got me to lay down an Ace on the river, one that may have split the pot with them or even possibly actually beat them. Talk about a twisted thought process!!

I had been check-raised by EACH of the blinds on both the flop AND the turn. And here I felt I had a decent table image up to this point; so much for that read of myslef [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] .

I cannot remember ever being in a situation where two different players had played me at so hard with each having absolutely nothing but 2 outs; with the absolute best part being that after they hit their out, they had to split the pot. The big blind's sincere bragging that his stellar play had gotten me to laydown an Ace on the end was truly the icing on the cake!!!

Anyway, I decided I needed to leave the Twilight Zone for a bit and took a walk. I usually never need to do this anymore to avoid going on tilt, but this was a bit much for me and I felt that taking a walk was the right thing for me to do at the time.

During my walk, I thought about the hand. Really, my only question for the forum is should I have played back at my opponenets on either the flop or the turn? Given the way my opponents played the hand, I truly do not think I win this pot no matter how I play it. Looking back, the only scenario in which I saw myself winning the pot was that maybe, and this is a really big maybe, if I had four bet the flop and then bet the turn, my opponents may have folded. Alas, the way my opponents played this hand forces me to seriously doubt there is anything I could have done to win this pot.

All thoughts and comments are appreciated.

While I was not at all amused at the time, looking back I find the way this hand played out more and more humorous each and every time I think about it. I hope you all enjoyed it as well.

Just some thoughts...

Michael D.

[MHoydilla]

I am not that great of a player so I doubt that I could add much about the play of the hand, but all in all one of the most intresting hands I ever read. I cant wait for all the opinions to come on in.

[Clarkmeister]

"Given that I had played tight and pretty well the prior two days, and the fact that there were 5 players whom I had played against in those same settings, I felt I had a decent table image "

Ah the joys of a tightass table image.

You think "I have a solid image and I'm getting respect"

They think "I can push this guy off a hand anytime I want."

I'm guessing all you guys with the ultra tight images are used to fending off these guys taking shots at you, but I sure wouldn't want to deal with it.

[andyfox]

I'm only tightass in terms of which hands I play. Then nobody thinks they can push me off a hand anytime they want because they "know" I don't have 9-5 or A-5 or K-J or some other similar crap, and they know I don't have other players behind me to worry about who have who knows what. Those are the situations I sure wouldn't want to deal with.

[mikelow]

Four-bet the turn. If your hunch is correct about A-x suited, why not just four bet the turn and check behind on the river?

[J_V]

You did very well not to get pushed off your hand on the turn.

In my experience, double check-raises and screwplays are very often whim raises that are desperate attempts to win the pot. Most players don't have the skill or wherewithall to be able to put you on a hand to put you on a big hand hereand then use that knowledge to set up a double check-raise.

Whenever I enter the Twighlight Zone like this, I try to find the check-call it all button, it's right next to the raise any button. It's one of my favorite's anyway.

Too bad a queen didn't come on the river. Then it could have gone bet, raise, fold.....and you'd still be shaking your head about those turkeys.

Some tight image you cultivated Mike, calling three bets with ace high? He must have thought you were a real rock.

[Jimbo]

Andy,

They now also know if the flop comes 223 and you have raised preflop that it missed you entirely. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[JTG51]

They now also know if the flop comes 223 and you have raised preflop that it missed you entirely.

Unless of course Andy raised after looking at just his first card and has A2. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[D.J.]

OK, I'm going to be that guy and ask this question. Is it possible that these guys knew eachother and were putting the move on you? One guy pulling this crap is one thing, but it happens, but 2 guys making sure you had 2 bets to you each time just seems a little awkward w/ their holdings. I'm not saying collusion happens a whole lot, but I KNOW it does indeed happen. I also can't say that they were doing anything with any certainty b/c I don't know what they did before and after this hand. Whether they made their hands or not, it sounds to me that they may have been using eachother to get you off your hand, but they just happened to get lucky and hit their card. I don't know, if I had this suspicion while I was playing I might have changed tables. I could be wrong and way off in my questioning this, but I would also be nieve to say that this sort of thing does not go on.

-D.J.

[Clarkmeister]

Izmet said in his recent trip report that he saw and reported two players for cheating in the 30-60 at the Bellagio.

Not saying its these two, obviously, but pointing out that its not paranoia to at least ask the question.