Folding the flop for one bet is cool

[ghostface]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I relate this to slowplaying, and slowplaying can bite you in the ass if someone draws out to the best hand because you gave them the pot odds to do so.

Slowplaying sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

So we should be raising to protect ace high + 6 outs to improve to a probable best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

And if lagmeister 3 bets?

[jat850]

Basic SSHE says that when a bet comes from your immediate right you, in general, you should either raise or fold. Calling this hand does not look to be right under any circumstances. A raise is the best way to try and thin the field which is the way to protect a high card hand.

Second best choice would be to fold, but lots of folks have already pointed out the lost opportunities there and you had no way of knowing before the fact that there would be a raise behind you. I suspect that raise would have disappeared had YOU been the raiser.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is a standard flop fold IMO, So I think you played this hand well. All you really have here is a draw to one pair, which may or may not be good if you hit it, or when you do hit it on the turn you can easily get rivered.

So you have six outs to a pair that will sometimes win the pot and other times just cost you more money when you lose. This means that you cannot count your draw as a six outer since you wont win every time you hit one of your outs. A better estimate would be that you have 3 pure outs in this situation, and if you add 1 pure out for your backdoor flushdraw you have 4 pure outs IMO.

Now you are gettin 11-1 to call with 4 pure outs, given this information it appears you have just enough to call, however there are 3 people left to act after you, so if you just call there is a decent probability that it will be raised behind you, thus lowering your true odds in this situation. Becuz of a chance of a raising coming behind you, you dont have the odds to call with your weak draw. So folding is the best move.

What about raising the flop?? What will a raise accomplish? Since there are 3 players behind you, I doubt you will be able to muscle them all out, so you will almost never get a free card with this raise, and when you run into a strong hand you will end up paying 3 bets on the flop when you could easily be drawing dead. If the pot were short handed with just one player behind you, then raising this flop makes sense since there is a decent chance the player behind you will fold thus giving you more strategic options on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to recount your outs.

Easy raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you see this draw as anything more than a 4 outer you are being too optimistic.

[SNOWBALL138]

"Why is raising better than calling?

I think that folding here is horrible due to the amount of outs we have for improvment by the turn. I think calling here is good and then we can see what happens on the turn.

We are in a position that if we improve (we have a high chance to be ahead of LAG?) we can raise and charge the whole field 2BB. This may get us a free showdown against LAG and we will have around 8-9 outs on the turn if we don't already hold the best hand.

True"



I like raising better than calling because I think I have the flop bettor beat pretty often. Because there's a ten on board, its kind of hard for players behind me to call unless they have a T, 2 overcards or an overpair.

[SNOWBALL138]

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I didn't like my odds on the flop,


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



?????

I have 3 players left to act behind me so my odds are worse than they look. If the pot were bigger, it wouldn't matter much that I wasn't closing the action. Even if there's no raise on this round, I could easily get whipsawed for an uncomfortable amount of bets on the turn. I would have to stick around if a J or a spade came off and I wouldn't be profitting from the extra money that went in.

My odds aren't awesome. 11:1 is probably 1.5 more sb than I need if I was closing the action, but because I'm not, I'd like the pot to be a little bigger. If I didn't have both of the backdoor draws, then I think a fold would be in order.

With three backdoor draws, 2 overs, and a very realistic possibility that I have the flop bettor beaten, I like raising.

[EgoSlasher]

That's a really weak fold unless the guy betting into you is the biggest rock you've ever seen. the pot is big, you have odds to call, and you have no reason to think you're outs aren't clean. Don't raise into 3 people with ace high either. This play should be automatic

[crunchy1]

Any hand that our flop raise folds out that's either ahead of us (i.e. small pocket pair) or drawing live to 5+ outs is making a mistake by folding (whether they know it or not). There's a good chance given the PF/Flop action that we'll accomplish this against at least one, if not two+, opponents. Folding out hands that should be calling is obviously an advantage to us.

[Stealthy]

Given the risk of one or both of our pair outs being counterfeited or even the chance that we are drawing nearly dead to a strong made hand I do not think that a fold is terrible by any means.

However as the flop bettor is laggy I think that a raise is in order to try and get this HU. A call does not get us very far as a large variety of hands can call profitably behind us whereby they may have folded for 2 cold. I want to continue and raise here almost purely cause of the laggy stats not cause we want to go too far with our weak drawing hand. I don't think it takes much to turn this into a fold if -

1. Aggressive players behind us still to act

2. There is a caller between us and the flop bettor

3. No spade

4. Flop bettor has not shown any laggy tendancies

then I think a simple flop fold is best.

I have been re-evaluating my play with AK recently as it is not nearly as big a winner as it should be. This is cause I often take it too far.

Calling here is the worst of all options I think. Say a player to act behind us calls after we do with A4 (when he would have folded if faced with 2 cold) look how much trouble we are in when that ace falls.

Raising just about best for me but only for the reasons stated, folding a close 2nd with calling the worst of the 3.

[Yads]

This is a pretty easy raise, IMO. The pot is big, you have a chance to thin the field. You have likely 6 outs, discounting your overcard outs and adding some backdoor draws. Getting hands that could draw out on you if you hit, as well as hands like small PPs to fold is great. You're likely even money with the LAG as he's probably betting a draw into you, but the pot is big and you have to give yourself the best chance to win it.

I guess this does depend on the players behind though.