Hand to Talk About

[skp]

But the guy who has two pair will have likely flopped a pair and a gutshot on the flop. With that hand, a late position player would bet on the flop.

Therefore, if there is a guy with two pairs on the river, I reckon that chap is in early position and he will be less likely to bet the river (i.e. he may be cautious, he may want to induce a bluff himself from late position players etc.).

So, in this spot, it may be tough to get an early position player to bet two pairs and it may be tough to find a late position player that has two pairs.

On the other hand, if Mason bets the river, the guy with two pairs in early position will probably still make a crying call.

[Ed S.]

I think when King comes off you might induce a bet from someone with kings up in late position if this was your thought process since the game was loose. Or even a bluff for that matter. Thats why you checked it on the turn. No one took the bait and it checked around again for the second time. The river came and it brought an 8 diamond. You had to bet out here. No one made a call here except for that 9-7d hand which made the smaller str8. I think you actually got an extra bet in from your opponent in the pot here this way. You would have lost a bet here if you bet the turn and you lose everyone. So by doing this you actually try to get someone to bet for you on the turn and let people draw cheap to complete a lessar hand.


Ed S.

[mike l.]

"But the guy who has two pair will have likely flopped a pair and a gutshot on the flop. With that hand, a late position player would bet on the flop.'

youre forgetting that mason described the game as very loose. so all sorts of hands could be out there. for instance in this case someone had 97 at the end for a smaller straight.

"So, in this spot, it may be tough to get an early position player to bet two pairs and it may be tough to find a late position player that has two pairs."

but there are usually other hands players will bet and even raise with on the end including complete bluffs.

[baseball38]

Just curious as to why you checked the turn. Were you just looking to check raise someone???

baseball38 [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img]

[CreamPuff]

Havent read any other replies,
but Im gonna say your logic on the turn was:

Game is loose...I would bet if I thought someone
had 2 pair...But since someone would have likely
bet 1 pair in this loose game, no reason to think
anyone could have made 2 pair.
Plus pot is small in relation to # of players in pot.
No flush draw.
Could induce a bluff (But Ill point you didnt say aggressive)
Check.........
Got lucky on river.

My logic based on your description:
5 loose players limped.
It's possible 1 or 2 players could've checked a hand like
KT in early position.
I'll bet and hope I get 1 or 2 callers..
There are around 7 Sb's in pot..No 3 outers for
a 7 way split.
I could get a crying call on the river.


***Note:
The key I think is in your description of the word "loose".
There are some games where players just play loose
preflop (and ok postflop). This may be the case
in a game like $30-$60 Vegas...So I like your play.

Then there is the California loosiness (is that a word?)
..seen preflop and postflop. In this game I say bet.

[NickS]

TURN: You are not going to announce you have the nuts by lead betting into a field of 5 opponets. So your check is correct. Since you describe this as a "very loose game" I assume you anticipated a bet after your check. If it comes back to you with no other callers I would have check raised. With other callers I would have quietly called.

RIVER: You made the only move you could have.

SUMMARY: Probably disappointed you were only able to extract one more bet after drawing the nuts.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi MRHeadsUp:

I agree with what you say. However, the downside is that you bet and another player with a queen raises and now the loose player can't play. By checking, you might catch the loose player for two bets.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Gino:

You wrote:

The free card paid off, and that's just why you gave it.

This is partly why I posted this hand. Yes the free card paid off, and the results make it appear that it was the proper play. But are we geeting results oriented?

Best wishes,
Mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi RydenStoompala:

You wrote:

The rainbow flop would have made me bet the turn.

Aren't all different suits a reason not to bet since there is no flush draw to get a call from?

Best wishes,
Mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi pilchard:

That's pretty much the way I saw it. However, as you point out very live players are certainly capable of calling with less than a queen. However, very live players are also more capable of being in there with absolutely nothing.

Best wishes,
Mason