Would you ever fold this set?

Muisyle · #1 11-25-2004, 01:07 AM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed)

UTG ($24.25)
UTG+1 ($34.05)
UTG+2 ($25.77)
Hero ($29.75)
MP2 ($54.38)
MP3 ($25)
CO ($24.15)
Button ($26.78)
SB ($26.62)
BB ($10.35)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB (poster) calls $1.75, BB calls $1.50, UTG calls $1.50, UTG+2 calls $1.50.

Flop: ($10) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB raises all in $24.62, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+2 folds, Hero...

I shouldn't ever fold this right? I only ask because I was pretty sure he had JK, and it turns out that he did in fact have JK. How certain of your read would you have to be to fold? 50%? 80%? Don't fold unless the software glitches and you can see his cards?

GameTheory · #2 11-25-2004, 01:40 AM

I don't think you should let JK play vs. your QQ in the first place. I don't think you can fold this set though...If he flops nuts, why wouldn't he check raise you on the turn? A could have AQ, TT, AT, etc etc. This is a long-term winning call IMO. If he does happen to have JK, you're still drawing live, and that's just the nature of the game.

BK_ · #3 11-25-2004, 01:46 AM

never fold this. it smells alot more like 2 pair than a straight. if he had the kj, he played it horribly.

TOmCowley · #4 11-25-2004, 01:52 AM

There's a subclass of newbie who pushes extreme overbets whenever they make a strong hand. I see them more IRL than online, but anyway. If you have that read on the guy (and they do it every time, so it's not that hard a read to make), then you can contemplate folding. With this flop though, you're behind to AA and KJ, and he probably would have reraised you with AA. He could consider any of AQ/AT/TT monsters here and they aren't horrific calls of the preflop raise. You have enough equity on these hands to call IMO, and you're still drawing to the equivalent of an OESD to boat out on him if he does have KJ. You'd have to be 80% sure to muck it correctly, and that's a hell of a read on that flop.

(edit: and without that specific read, you can't even think about folding that for less than your right arm)

danstjohn · #5 11-25-2004, 02:05 AM

I don't like the small raise with two callers in front of you and a 6 more people to act. If two people call and its to me I would raise to at least $5. He could be holding any number of hands including KJ but there isn't any way that I would fold. You can still outdraw him on the turn or river if he is holding KJ. It is puzzling to me why he would go all in UTG after he flops the nuts and I would have put him on AQ or QT but I call here everytime.

MrFroggyX · #6 11-25-2004, 04:48 AM

Funny.. Almost the same hand happened to me today.. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
And yes.. he had KJ.. But still..
He could have lots off hands that you beat:
AK,AQ,AJ,A10,1010,KK and so on.. You are only beat by two hands.. KJ and AA. Be happy and get your money in as quickly as possible.

And if your opponent have KJ.. Well then you have some outs to the boat and quads (7 outs on the Turn and 10 outs on the River).

I have a policy to NEVER fold a set on partypoker. Except in very rare cases when I'm absolutely sure that I'm beat..

And yeah.. Raise more preflop: Atlest to $3.. preferable more.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed)

BB ($233.8)
UTG ($111.15)
UTG+1 ($77.5)
MP1 ($129.25)
MP2 ($170.25)
MP3 ($161.25)
MrFroggyX ($97)
Button ($118.7)
SB ($242.5)

Preflop: MrFroggyX is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $2, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, MrFroggyX raises to $10, Button folds, SB (poster) folds, BB calls $8, UTG+1 folds.

Flop: ($23) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, MrFroggyX bets $20, BB raises to $85, MrFroggyX calls $67 (All-In), BB calls $2.

Turn: ($197) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($197) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $197
Main Pot: $197, between BB and MrFroggyX. > Pot won by BB ($197).

Results in white below: 
BB has Kh Jh (straight, ace high).
MrFroggyX has Qs Qh (three of a kind, queens).
Outcom[b]e: BB wins $197.

Muisyle · #7 11-25-2004, 12:48 PM

Well I typed into the chatbox "so you've got KJ huh?" and then called. As I've already said, he turns over KJ, and I river a T for the full house. The guy to my right (who thought for a LONG time before folding) says "nice call" ...

BK_ · #8 11-25-2004, 01:01 PM

you should be placing kj about 5th on his most likely hands list.

Muisyle · #9 11-25-2004, 02:46 PM

Would you fold THIS set?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed)

MP1 ($36.25)
MP2 ($48.3)
Hero ($26.1)
CO ($25)
Button ($16)
SB ($18.45)
BB ($43.45)
UTG ($6.3)
UTG+1 ($14)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.5. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.50, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero calls $0.50, CO (poster) checks, Button calls $0.50, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($3) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($3) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB bets $2, UTG+1 calls $2, Hero raises to $6, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls $6, BB folds, UTG+1 raises to $10, Hero raises to $14, SB folds, UTG+1 calls $3.50 (All-In).

River: ($38.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $38.50

Results in white below: 
UTG+1 has 9c 8c (straight, ten high).
Hero has 7d 7c (three of a kind, sevens).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins $38. Hero wins $0.50.

greg nice · #10 11-25-2004, 02:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Would you fold THIS set?

[/ QUOTE ]no