God is Love

[NotReady]

For some time now I have been engaged in various debates of a theological nature, mostly on the Psychology forum. The central issues were generally those which involve logic, reason, evolution, meaning, purpose and similar concepts. I believe fervently in the things I presented there, and no doubt will gladly make the same arguments where appropriate in the future.

However, I've recently been reflecting on these discussions and I feel convinced that something important has been ignored in all the controversy. So I'm going to discourse on that briefly, then I expect to withdraw from the fray for awhile. I will certainly be glad to answer PM's if anyone is interested, but I can't think of anything I have to add publicly to what I've already said concerning these matters, and I see nothing productive in repeating myself. In all honesty, I can't think of any arguments I haven't made or any objections or questions I haven't responded to, adequately or not.

What's been missing and what I feel most strongly about can best be expressed by a Bible verse.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

What I want to talk about now is love, God's love as revealed in Scripture.

1 John 4:
8 The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

Many of you may not believe me when I tell you I really don't think I know everything, or for that matter, that I know very much at all. But of all the mysteries that exist for me in the universe, by far and away without comparison is the mystery of love. I know what love is, I believe I may have a drop or two of love in me(by God's grace), but I do not begin to understand it - and God's love for us is the mystery of mysteries.

Some of you have asked what is the difference between Christianity and other religions, or the Bible and other writings which claim inspiration. I know of no other text that even comes close to expressing God's love for man like the Bible, or that demands of Christians such a high standard of love for others. That difference alone is so enormous all the other distinguishing characteristics of Christianity combined do not equal it.

I like knowledge as much as anyone, and the Bible teaches us to pursue wisdom and knowledge. But listen to Paul on the subject of knowledge:

1 Corinthians 13:

1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

13But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.

1 Corinthians 8:1
Knowledge makes arrogant, but love edifies.

All the words I can speak, and all the reasoning and arguments I can make, are shallow and weak compared to what Jesus said at the Last Supper:

John 13:

34"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
35"By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

The church has failed in this throughout the centuries since these words were spoken, to our shame. I have failed in this more than I like to think. But the one great, common thread throughout the Bible is love, God's love for us, His commandment that we love Him, and that we love one another. Humans fail completely in this obligation of love, but God's love for us never fails.

So I haven't communicated this in the heat of debate. No doubt I get too involved in the logic of the argument as well. I know that my words will never persuade anyone, I have no power of my own. But my testimony is that God does love, and He will unfailingly reveal that to any who will know.

[TStoneMBD]

excellent post.

id like to add in that it has been the fault of the churches along with mankind that hinder the understanding that god is love. most people do not base their understanding of the bible on its actual text, but the ties that have been strung along by a corrupt church. most people think that they have christianity summed up, but they only have the flaws of men understood. if the inquisitive decide to read biblical text without maintaining the predisposition of church cliches and keep an openmind, they will see that the god of christianity is far different than they have originally perceived.

[David Sklansky]

The God of Sklanskyanity loves too. In fact it is unconditional love. All he wants is that the conscious beings he knew would one day evolve here, and elsewhere, be (as a whole) happy. ("Happy" is of course too trivial a word). He doesn't care if you believe in him unless you need to believe to behave in a way that will get you to take the non selfish choice in Prisoner Dillemma and similar situations.

[TStoneMBD]

david, you have been a walking sideshow lately. i dont know whats gotten into you.

[Mike Gallo]

Love for the sake of loving, not because of the consequences one will face if one does not love.

[PairTheBoard]

[ QUOTE ]
Love for the sake of loving, not because of the consequences one will face if one does not love.

[/ QUOTE ]

.
PTB

[Duke]

[ QUOTE ]
Love for the sake of loving, not because of the consequences one will face if one does not love.

[/ QUOTE ]

So it's like being a Jedi.

~D

[d_rod]

So I've been reading through this thread now for about 30 minutes, and whilst I don't claim to have read the entire thread, I think there's something worth bringing up that is applicable to the discussions on scripture. Please keep in mind, what I’m writing down is a bit hazy as I learned it 10 years ago in college. However, it is accurate nonetheless.

It is very important to examine the historical context that the books of the bible were written in. There is evidence by christian theologians as to the periods in time and locations that the gospels as well as other books in the new testament were written. There is also evidence that the authors (or compilers) of the gospels were influenced by their cultural surroundings and the events happening at the times. For example, the gospel of Matthew was written primarily to an upper class jewish audience. This was primarily because this gospel was being written during the same time and in the same city that the jewish scriptures were being gathered and organized together. There was a serious amount of competition and desire to convert people from the jewish faith to the "new" religion. The gospel of luke was written later than Matthew in a different city. This gospel addresses a lower class audience.

As a result, it is safe to say the authors of the gospels were influenced by their surroundings, correct?

[David Steele]

to behave in a way that will get you to take the non selfish choice in Prisoner Dillemma and similar situations.

Are you aware of the tit-for-tat but otherwise cooperating to handle these situations?

Also cooperation may evolve to benefit survival of some genes which is all that matters anyway in evolution.

I am not quite ready to become a Sklanskian

D.

[David Sklansky]

"Are you aware of the tit-for-tat but otherwise cooperating to handle these situations?"

Hey, since when are insults allowed on this forum? Robert Axelrod. And there are even some schemes that have been shown to be slightly better. But they all suffer from occasional defections. If everyone believed that God wouldn't tolerate it, it would virtually end that problem.

Anyway thanks for coining the word Sklanskian. I like it better than Sklanskyite evn though it changes the last letter of my name. I also encourage everyone to point out logical problems with it right now. I only took five minutes to think up this new, better, religion so their might be some minor flaws. We need to fix them now so when we are in the middle of collecting our billions some wise guy like me doesn't get on a website to try to gum up the works.