Post flop play help

[jacattac]

First, since this is my first post on this site, I want to say hello to everyone. Looks like a great site and I'm excited about becoming a contributing member.

Now to my question, and rest assured I've tried the search function, but still have not found what I'm looking for.

My wife and I have read, anotated, re-read, studied, SSH many times over the past month. When we tried to apply the teachings in micro limit games such as .02/.04 - .1/.2 we have consistantly been beaten. We have the starting hands down cold, and me being an accountant and her being a math teacher, calculating all of the odds are no problem.

Where I feel that we're losing most of our money is on incorrect play on the flop and turn. The problem is is that the pots we lose are always very large and the majority of the pots we win are always small. We always play statiscally and only call or raise if we have a positive EV and the pot odds indicate that its profitable to continue to play.

We are obviously missing something critical but I'm not sure what it is. I think we have missunderstood some primary post flop techniques, but I'm not sure what to do if the statistics tell us that it's profitable to keep playing.

Any advice on post flop techniques would be greatly appreciated or if someone could clarify some of the points in the book that we may not be grasping (not sure which ones, we would appreciate that too.

Thank you for reading this and helping us out.

Regards

[Firefly]

Hi and welcome
It's good you've studied SSH it's kinda the bible around here :P.
Advice 1) Read the FAQ lots of goodness in there
Advice 2) Read threads by other posters and respond with your thoughts, if you are wrong you will be corrected into what is hopefully the right play.
Advice 3) Post some hands where you were confused, we aren't really worried about hands where some fool caught trips on the river to beat your top 2 pair, because you probally played that hand well, look for hands where you were confused between bet/call and such
Advice 4) From your post, being mathematical is good, however remember to calculated implied odds. You may not get the exact odds but remember to calculate if you can make up the odds on later streets

Good luck and welcome to 2+2

[CMonkey]

How much weight do you give to game factors other than the purely numerical ones? I ask because there's much more to poker than pot odds. Certainly, pot odds are an important consideration, but no less so than position, opponent tendencies and characteristics, and the number of opponents. All these factors, along with many others, skew the statistics. Later position allows to extract more value than you might first predict. Loose and passive opponent allow you to find value in a wider range of hands. Some hands play well against many players but poorly against only a few, and vice versa. And so on.

[grjr]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi and welcome
Advice 4) From your post, being mathematical is good, however remember to calculated implied odds. You may not get the exact odds but remember to calculate if you can make up the odds on later streets

Good luck and welcome to 2+2

[/ QUOTE ]

I think at those nano-limits where no one is folding this is the most important thing that the OP is missing. Also, don't forget to raise your good draws on the flop to build up the pot.

[moot]

The nano-limits can be a different kind of monster, with so many people seeing the flop. I've seen skilled players struggle with these games, yet do well at the mirco limits.

Though some would advise against bypassing, I might suggest trying the PartyPoker .5/1 and see how that goes. You can deposit 500 and get a 100 bonus, which should be more then enough to pad you if you start off on a bit of a downswing. So you really don't have to risk that much of a bankroll.

The nano-limits have so much flutuation with so many players seeing the flop that it can sometimes be psychologicall unhealthy. Also, are you factoring in how much you should be winning compared to the size of the bets? At those levels a few big bets per 100 hands kinda sucks (though from a poker standpoint it could be considered decent, even good). I mean, at these limits you could be making less than 50 cents an hour and still be doing well by the standards.

I always suggest that players who have a strong desire to play the game and play it well simply avoid the nano-limits. Yes, in the long run you can win more big bets, but the big bets are such tiny denominations and the ups and downs (though also tiny) just aren't particularly rewarding. In a nut shell, I think many good players simply will not have fun at the nano limits.

Having a really good session and patting yourself on the back that you made one whole dollar... IT SUCKS.

[thesharpie]

Why risk $500 at .50/1 where the mistakes are costlier when you can risk $50 at .05/.1? (or even less)

I think it helps your patience to grind it out making a couple of quarters an hour.

If someone doesn't mind putting up $500 and making their mistakes at .50/1 I'd say go for it, but if they'd rather ease in gently I think nanos are perfect.

[@bsolute_luck]

a wife/husband gambling duo. that's great! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] if you've read the books and can count odds, i'd skip nano once you're comfortable with the basics: pot odds, counting outs, and preflop hands. play tightly to begin with. nanos are for either people that don't have the bankroll or people who don't remember the rules and such.

if you have at least $200, take it to Paradise, use the GRANNY code when signing up to max bonus (why not get paid to learn [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]), plop down at a .25/.5 with $15-$20 and just play. i think .25/.5 is a great place to learn cheap, and people generally play "for real" rather than throwing money around at nanos like in play money.

you can post hands, but i would more encourage reading and replying to hands here. you'll learn more IMO and sooner or later you'll see the hands that confuse you also confuse others. and you'll learn more of reads.

don't multitable and your reads should focus on how/what they are playing rather than their stats. that's my starting suggestion. gl, welcome to the boards, and we look forward to hearing your and your wife's thoughts [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Quercus]

Its impossible to say what the problem with your play is without seeing hands.

[jacattac]

Thank you all for replying to my post. I think I may step it up in blinds to the .25-.5 tables, I guess I'm just disapointed for not being able to dominate the nano limit games [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] . Also, out of respect to the board, I'm not ready to post hands or stats just yet because I haven't hit the 10K mark yet. For now I will continue to read SSH, move up in blinds slightly and glean as much information from you all that I can!!!! Once again thanks for all the help!!

[Roybert]

Hey Jac, and welcome to the boards.

Please don't hesitate to post hands, no matter how many hands you've played. Not only will you find it beneficial, but it also helps the community as a whole by forcing us to think of how we'd play in the same situation.

Also, and I don't think anyone has mentioned this - there may very well be no problem with your play. You haven't played very many hands yet, and it is entirely possible that you are just running bad now. If you posted some hands that you have questions about, you might be able to identify some of your leaks (if you even have any).

It is great that you are studying SSHE and these boards; they really are GREAT resources for improving your game. Give it time and put in your work and I am sure you will crush the micros before you know it.

Finally, I'm an accountant, too, and I would love to know the secret of how you got your wife to play! I've been trying to get my fiancee interested for about 3 years now, and I haven't had any success.

In any event, good luck to both of you - I'm sure you'll get it sooner rather than later.

Brian.

[Edit] - oops - one more thing ... With all due respect to the fellow posters, I think it's a very bad idea to skip the nanos. Moving up to 'avoid suck outs and rocks' won't fix any of your leaks. Stay where you are and pay for your lessons as cheaply as possible. The players stink, but you learn the same things as you would at higher limits (only for a lot less $).