When has it become bad to be a Christian?

[A_C_Slater]

Good/Bad is a Christian concept.

These classifications didn't exist until the advent
of Christianity.

I'll be frank with you.

There is no metaphysical good and evil in the human world
anymore than there is in the animal world or the chemical
world or the physical world of gravity and mass.

If a child is a nuisance tell him so. Tell him his
behavior is annoying. But never, never, make a metaphysical
moral issue out of it. Never, Never say anything is
wrong in a cosmic sense.

Never pass on the lunacy, the Emotional Plague, that has
come down to us from ages of superstition and barbarism.

We must understand that every moral idea is strictly a
hallucination. It creates guilt which creates muscular
tension, which creates rage. That leads to furthur armoring to hold the rage in. That leads to all the psychosomatic
illnesses that orthodox medicine can't cure and to all
the social pathologies around us.

Rape. Child beating. War.

There is a natural grace and a natural way of life we have
lost. We lost it through the invention of Good and Evil.

As soon as we believed we were sinners, the Trap closed
on us. We accepted sin and punished ourselves. Or we
projected the sin outward and punished scapegoats.

Masochism or Sadism!

Those were the only choices once we believed in Good and
Evil, once we believed in Sin. We are animals.

We are no more guilty than a dog, a cat, a horse, a
chipmunk. Everybody has known it since Darwin.

But we are still in the Trap.

[Spladle Master]

[ QUOTE ]
Good/Bad is a Christian concept.

These classifications didn't exist until the advent
of Christianity.

I'll be frank with you.

There is no metaphysical good and evil in the human world
anymore than there is in the animal world or the chemical
world or the physical world of gravity and mass.

If a child is a nuisance tell him so. Tell him his
behavior is annoying. But never, never, make a metaphysical
moral issue out of it. Never, Never say anything is
wrong in a cosmic sense.

Never pass on the lunacy, the Emotional Plague, that has
come down to us from ages of superstition and barbarism.

We must understand that every moral idea is strictly a
hallucination. It creates guilt which creates muscular
tension, which creates rage. That leads to furthur armoring to hold the rage in. That leads to all the psychosomatic
illnesses that orthodox medicine can't cure and to all
the social pathologies around us.

Rape. Child beating. War.

There is a natural grace and a natural way of life we have
lost. We lost it through the invention of Good and Evil.

As soon as we believed we were sinners, the Trap closed
on us. We accepted sin and punished ourselves. Or we
projected the sin outward and punished scapegoats.

Masochism or Sadism!

Those were the only choices once we believed in Good and
Evil, once we believed in Sin. We are animals.

We are no more guilty than a dog, a cat, a horse, a
chipmunk. Everybody has known it since Darwin.

But we are still in the Trap.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, awesome post. Reminds me of Daniel Quinn's stuff.

[craig r]

He wrote Ishmael, right?

craig

[elwoodblues]

It didn't take long for this flawed argument to show up. The same argument was made with interracial marriages (it was in fact argued before the US Supreme Court who held that it was a flawed argument.)

Blacks have the same rights as whites, to marry someone of their own race.

Absolutely flawed argument.

[Nate Finch]

[ QUOTE ]
Our society considers the ideal family to consist of a father, a mother, and children. Marriage is an institution designed to promote that ideal family structure.

[/ QUOTE ]

Incorrect. Our society considers the traditional family to consist of father, mother, children. Ideals are for philosophers and priests.

[ QUOTE ]
What is happening in America today is the Gay community is trying to use marriage to promote a family structure that the rest of society feels is less than ideal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bullshit. If you truly believe the gay community is trying to push it's values on anyone else, you are horribly misinformed.

The gay community just wants the same rights as the straight community - to be able to marry the person they love, having all the rights and priveledges due them for such a relationship. Marry, not civil unionize.

[ QUOTE ]
the institution of marriage

[/ QUOTE ]

Marriage is not an institution. Marriage is a contract describing a government-recognized relationship. God I hate that "marriage is an institution" crap.

[ QUOTE ]
The rest of society is essentially saying that they will tolerate a gay family structure, but they will not allow the institution of marriage to be changed to promote it.

[/ QUOTE ]

And the question again is - why? Because you think being gay is wrong. Do you also think we shouldn't allow muslims or jews or buddhists to marry in the united states, because their family values are different than yours? How about single parents? Divorcees? Guess what, the June Cleaver version of the American family is a dying breed.

[ QUOTE ]
Id like to add that I think the gay community is wrong to single out christians. Its a much larger cross section of America that is opposed to changing marriage.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is only Christians who I've heard say that being gay is morally wrong and an affront to god. Maybe they're not the only ones against it, but they're for damn sure the most vocal.

Why do you think you get to say what is right and what is wrong when it harms no one?

-Nate

[Nate Finch]

[ QUOTE ]
It didn't take long for this flawed argument to show up. The same argument was made with interracial marriages (it was in fact argued before the US Supreme Court who held that it was a flawed argument.)

Blacks have the same rights as whites, to marry someone of their own race.

Absolutely flawed argument.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bravo! Absolutely a great point!

-Nate

[zephed56]

I'm no conservative, but I do think a child should have a mother and a father. Each has something different to offer to the child.

[elwoodblues]

Making divorce illegal when there are kids involved would do just as much to accomplish this goal as mandating that only opposite sex individuals can marry. While parentage and marriage are certainly related, they don't have to be. As you know, kids can be born out of wedlock, have parents who divorce, be adopted by single individuals, be adopted by gay couples, people who are otherwise incapable of having children can get married, our government allows people with children to enter the military (and, thus, remove them from their kids). We don't legislate against any of this, yet one of the main arguments against gay marriage is that children should have a mother and a father.

[tolbiny]

so what? Those are your values, and you ought not be albe to force them on someone else.

[MelchyBeau]

Here are my two cents on this argument

1. It is not the governments duty to secure the 'sanctity' of anything. The term sanctity obviously has religious implications.

2. Sometimes majority rule isn't always right. The majority of americans before the civil war thought slavery was correct.

3. There is no sanctity of marriage at this point. 1/2 of all marriages end in divorce. 1/3 of all marriages are scarred by infidelity. Also FOX runs gameshows on people wanting to get married.

4. The church has the possibility to preserve this sanctity. They can refuse to marry said couple. or pass law into thier doctrine stating that in the eyes of god they are not married.

This is a Church issue, not a states issue.

Melch