Does this sound like cheating to you!?!?!

[jmark]

HigherAce, I'm sorry that you're upset about the burn card thing but if you just think about it logically it makes sense the key to remember is that the dealer shuffles the cards so that they are random well not random but mostly random then the dealer deals all the hole cards to everyone now remember that the deck is random what if the dealer just dealt one card to somebody then shuffled again then dealt the next hole card and shuffled etc etc since the cards are random it doesn't matter whether you continually shuffle or not again what if the dealer dealt every 4th card instead of every card you'd still get the same hand because they're random cards and now what if the dealer burns a couple random cards between the flop and turn and river nothing changes right? because the cards are random so the order that you deal them makes no difference you might as well as yell at the dealer for shuffling 4 times and not 3 if they would have shuffled 3 you would have hit a royal flush with another guy dealt quads but since they shuffled 4 times all you got is bottom pair this time but don't get mad it's all ok and what about the guy to your left who just sat out a hand what if he was in the hand you would have made the nut straight while some other guy had a set of aces lots of money lost there but you can't blame him for taking a piss can you now what if all the cards were marked and some guy could just look at the back of the cards and know what that card was he goes 200 bets on the turn because he sees his miracle gutshot straight sitting on the top of the deck in the dealer's hand but oh no the dealer just took that top card and discarded it and dealt the next card in the deck which was a gigantic brick damn what a waste of time marking all those cards

[B4TTERY]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's something to think about that may keep you up at night...

What if your third or fourth five doesn't come up because they're deeper in the deck and if you don't burn 3 cards it won't get there?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not only did this keep me up at night, but--perhaps more importantly--it alerted me to a larger problem:

What if the 4 other cards that give me my nut straight flush were found at four random locations in the deck instead of on the flop, turn, or river where I want them?

[Eihli]

Good post, but there is only one punctuation mark throughout that entire paragraph.

[HigherAce]

ok...true true I put to much bs into my original post. Alls I wanted to know was how the burn cards keep people from cheating if they know theres gonna be burn cards. I know that when you make a hand you wouldn't of made it if there were no burn cards.I know it works both ways. Was just trying to give examples of what I was thinking of. Was just wondering. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[DimensionPresident]

Also, it would be easier for the dealer to flash another player the top card than it is to flash second from the top.

[Wesley N]

Wow,
There was so much humor and irony on these posts, however, I can see that its also a very informative forum... I learned more about the "burn" concept than I knew.
I was wondering something that came up last night in our little Home Tourny, perhaps someone can give me a "valid" answer so I can relay to our group....
Why do we deal to a player who steps away from the table for a hand or two? I know that when He/She is up to act the cards are mucked but I could not explain why we had to still deal to the seat?
The argument came b/c many who played last night are used to ring games where one can go in and out and never worry about cards being dealt.
--Wes

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
Why do we deal to a player who steps away from the table for a hand or two? I know that when He/She is up to act the cards are mucked but I could not explain why we had to still deal to the seat?


[/ QUOTE ]

During an infrequent appearance of mine at an NL cash game a short while ago, I noticed that at least a couple of players would routinely deal cards to an empty seat if someone was away from the table. When it was my deal and I refused to deal cards to an empty seat when the player had just gotten up to go to the bathroom, two of the others became agitated. Although they couldn't verbalize why they were upset when I asked, I realize now it was because they must have thought I had somehow disrupted the karmic distribution of the cards.

[Wesley N]

How did you end up resolving the issue, b/c we were having a similar problem, (with players getting aggrevated) saying it would speed up the game to just not deal them at all while they stepped away.
Since I couldn't argue for or against this "Karmic" idea, I just abided by their request but felt uneasy knowing that Major Tournaments such as the WSOP games do in fact deal out to empty seats, but I couldn't explain why?

[Riverboat Willie]

ok folks, i'm not sure how much the burn question actually got answered, so i'll adress that and the empty seat question.

Burn Cards: Forget anything about any postion of any card in the deck. They are all random untill exposed or dealt to a player. The reason you burn a card just before flipping a community card, is so that the deck will not effect any of the betting. For example, assume there was no burning. Say you have Kh 2h and the flop comes jh 3c 5h. One opponent makes a large bet, and you stop to consider your next move. You look at the deck and see the top card has a crease in the upper left corner. You remember from earlier that you accidentally creased the Ace of hearts when you lost with it earlier. You now know, before having to call, that you will turn the nut flush. With a burn card, you may know what card is not coming up (say you notice the burn is going to be that ace) but you can't tell ahead of time what will be coming up. That is the sole reason for burning a card each time you turn over community cards.

Dealing to an Empty Seat: You must always deal to an away player, because that player may come back at any time. This also makes sure that each player around the table recieves their proper card (even though they're all random) If an away player comes back before the action is on him/her and they are automatically check/folded, they may sit and pick up their hand and play it. You can choose not to be dealt in if you say so when you leave, but it disqualifies you for any table wide bad beat jackpots at live poker rooms. The only advantage you have to telling the dealer not to deal you in, is that the game will go faster for those who are still seated.

Just my $0.02. Hope it helped

Mark "Riverboat Willie" Nelson

[Nate Finch]

Willie had it exactly right. Let me summarize.

Burn: Prevents using marked cards. Since the only one you can see until betting is finished is one that won't be shown, you can't make much use out of marked cards.

Dealing to empty seats: They can come back before they are folded out of the hand.


The whole "but I would have made my trips without the burn" is a false argument. Whenever you deal from a properly shuffled deck, the results are random. Doesn't matter if it's the top card, bottom card, middle card, whatever. Burning a card is the same as if that card were on the bottom of the deck. You won't see it either way.

It's not cheating, you're not getting screwed, you have 100% exactly the same chance to hit your hand with or without the burn card.

-Nate