1/2 6-max hand from last night - Page 2

djoyce003 · #11 07-12-2005, 11:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Why wouldn't he c/r if he had a strong hand on the flop? It's a draw heavy board so he should a)protect and b)get plenty of action from someone fearing a semi-bluff. No?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't see that as a draw heavy board against a preflop raiser. Against a caller yes, raiser, no.

TheWorstPlayer · #12 07-12-2005, 11:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why wouldn't he c/r if he had a strong hand on the flop? It's a draw heavy board so he should a)protect and b)get plenty of action from someone fearing a semi-bluff. No?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't see that as a draw heavy board against a preflop raiser. Against a caller yes, raiser, no.

[/ QUOTE ]
Part of the reason to raise the flop is to get action before draws hit which will shut your opponent down. Also, preflop raisers can have flush draws here. Sure, it's unlikely, but it can happen, right? Just as likely as a caller having a flush draw.

Go_Blue88 · #13 07-12-2005, 11:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why wouldn't he c/r if he had a strong hand on the flop? It's a draw heavy board so he should a)protect and b)get plenty of action from someone fearing a semi-bluff. No?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't see that as a draw heavy board against a preflop raiser. Against a caller yes, raiser, no.

[/ QUOTE ]
Part of the reason to raise the flop is to get action before draws hit which will shut your opponent down. Also, preflop raisers can have flush draws here. Sure, it's unlikely, but it can happen, right? Just as likely as a caller having a flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

If i was villian in this hand (and i had a big hand like i think he does), i wouldn't be worried about a club falling b/c my opponent could be on a flush draw; i'd be worried b/c it could kill my action. but i think it's worth it to take that risk sometimes in the hopes of getting paid off big w/ a c/r on the turn.

TheWorstPlayer · #14 07-12-2005, 11:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why wouldn't he c/r if he had a strong hand on the flop? It's a draw heavy board so he should a)protect and b)get plenty of action from someone fearing a semi-bluff. No?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't see that as a draw heavy board against a preflop raiser. Against a caller yes, raiser, no.

[/ QUOTE ]
Part of the reason to raise the flop is to get action before draws hit which will shut your opponent down. Also, preflop raisers can have flush draws here. Sure, it's unlikely, but it can happen, right? Just as likely as a caller having a flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

If i was villian in this hand (and i had a big hand like i think he does), i wouldn't be worried about a club falling b/c my opponent could be on a flush draw; i'd be worried b/c it could kill my action. but i think it's worth it to take that risk sometimes in the hopes of getting paid off big w/ a c/r on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
c/c flop, c/r turn is so not a good line. too often the turn gets checked through. of course that doesn't mean that isn't what villain was doing. but if that was his plan, why did he open push the turn?

Go_Blue88 · #15 07-12-2005, 12:04 PM

[/ QUOTE ]
c/c flop, c/r turn is so not a good line. too often the turn gets checked through. of course that doesn't mean that isn't what villain was doing. but if that was his plan, why did he open push the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

First, i don't think it's a bad line sometimes b/c it's so unexpected; it confuses opponents (many others may disagree with this). Second, i said earlier that i think he pushed the turn b/c the card freaked him out and he feared the river card (maybe b/c he thought it'd kill his action, or maybe b/c he thought it'd beat him), so he wanted to get it in on the turn. I've seen people do this a lot. Ha watch me be wrong and then no one will agree w/ me.

Ghazban · #16 07-12-2005, 12:08 PM

Based on the line of thinking from TWP's first post, I ended up calling after some thought. Villain had A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] for the turned OESD and nut flush draw blocker. River bricks and MHIG.

What do you think about villain's turn openpush shorthanded? The ace of clubs in his hand makes it less likely that I had raised preflop with big clubs (though, of course, something like KQs is still possible) and the ragged nature of the board makes it unlikely that I had a pair unless I started with one. I think he gets a lot of better hands to fold with this play (any better ace, maybe even a smallish overpair).

TheWorstPlayer · #17 07-12-2005, 12:10 PM

I'm not sure. But I think that it is not a good line because it doesn't really confuse anyone. It very clearly says that you have a hand which can beat one pair. So you end up just getting people to fold when they are actually drawing very slim or completely dead. And it often doesn't work because people check the turn through. I think leading the turn is much better since it can induce very bad raises and also prevents the turn from getting completely checked through. And even if Hero called and villain showed crap, I don't think you are wrong. I think villain could be following the thought process you are describing. I'm just trying to point out why I don't think it is a very good thought process. Not saying that he isn't following it, though. He might be.

TheWorstPlayer · #18 07-12-2005, 12:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What do you think about villain's turn openpush shorthanded?

[/ QUOTE ]
Um...I hate it? For exactly the reasons I explained in my other post, I think this is a good spot to c/r a-i on the turn if he wants to make a move here. A)It looks very strong and often gets people to fold. B)It often gets checked through, which would be good for him here since he just picked up a pretty good draw.

Ghazban · #19 07-12-2005, 12:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What do you think about villain's turn openpush shorthanded?

[/ QUOTE ]
Um...I hate it? For exactly the reasons I explained in my other post, I think this is a good spot to c/r a-i on the turn if he wants to make a move here. A)It looks very strong and often gets people to fold. B)It often gets checked through, which would be good for him here since he just picked up a pretty good draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's $47 in the pot, he has $63 behind. I don't think a checkraise has any folding equity vs. a legitimate hand. If I bet $25-$30 on the turn and he pushes for $33-$38 more, I'm instantly calling. By pushing first in, I actually am faced with a decision. IMO, checkraise semibluffing with a stack this short is retarded.

TheWorstPlayer · #20 07-12-2005, 12:19 PM

Didn't remember he was so short. Then just check and call if you're getting >4:1. Check/fold otherwise. And fold preflop. Sure he gave you pause, but really the stack is too short to pull even this move here. If he doesn't have enough to c/r bluff, then just forget the hand. Open pushing is retarded. It caused you to call and it would have caused me to call, too.