PP 3/6

[Rico Suave]

I recently moved up to the 3/6 games at party after beating the 1/2 and the 2/4 at pretty good clip. I had the bankroll to move up sooner, but I wanted to be confident that I was actually capable of beating the lesser games, and wasn't just running good for a significant time.

Well after about 10,000 hands, I am beating the games, but for a very modest 1.5 bb / 100. IMO, this game is signicantly different than the 2/4. The overall flops seen is around 32% (for everyone) compared to the 39% of the 2/4. At a typicaly table, there usually 3-4 TAG players and 3-4 pretty tight, but not particularly aggressive, and 1-3 donaters of varying level (though not as bad as in the 2/4). Blind stealing and blind defense is becoming a pretty important part of the game. The players are a bit more tricky, and playing the player, especially the tight, but weak opponents can be pretty profitable. So, I guess what I am saying here is that the games require a bit of a different skill set.

One thing that is bothering me is my VP$iP. It is at 12.69% and seems pretty darn low (sb is 13.45%). Small pairs and Axs are not playable from EP at most tables, and I do not get the opportunity to play suited connectors nearly as often. In short, I feel I do not play enough hands. Any thoughts here?

My pfr% is at 7.2%, which is probably a bit low. I only rarely open limp, and I will raise some less than stellar holding to isolate weak players. Is this too low? (Stheif, there is no need to respond to this point, I know where you stand here.....maniac ... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] )

A couple of other stats W$WSF is at 29.50% and W$SD 54.03%. I think both of these are a bit low consider my low vp$ip number. I think this may be indicative of not running so great.

So anyway, I just wanted to make some comments on how I see the 3/6 games at party. Anyone agree with my assessment? Any thoughts on my uber tightness?

--Rico

[Kluddeludde]

[ QUOTE ]
One thing that is bothering me is my VP$iP. It is at 12.69% and seems pretty darn low (sb is 13.45%).

[/ QUOTE ]

And here I thought I was tight. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I think you can probably play a few more hands and you should definately raise more preflop. It's hard to give any other specific advice with just your stats to go on, though.

Kludde

[Faststan]

I just started playing poker about 2 mo. ago,but have read
extensively.(played about 5000 hands).However I am an advanced BJ player as well as other card games.I did
extremely well at .50/1.00,1/2 and2/4 at .
Party poker.Luck was definitely involved.In the 3/6 game I
got killed.In analyzing it,I found that about 3 players on
average were extremely high skilled,top notch veterans.
Another 4 players were very, very good.The others were
weak like myself.I am playing 2/4 again and holding my own.
I have a lot to learn before attempting 3/6 again.Huge
difference.

[BobbyD]

Rico - I think I'm where you are in my game. Been beating Party 2/4 since January - up a couple thousand BB's. I don't do poker tracker although I know I should. I used to play a lot - a whole lot - slowed down as of late. Don't know my win rate.

Whenever I have tried to step up to 3/6 I have gotten my lunch handed to me. It's a completely different game. I have decided to take around a couple hundred BB's and give it a try and am doing better of late.

Position is huge. Aggression is huge. Aggression with position is a must. Obviously, it's more expensive to stay with your draws - in fact - I've found that you're going to pay to see the turn and river much more often with a 4 flush OESD even if you raise with the hopes of getting a free card.

I have no real words of wisdom yet - but you're not imagining things - it IS a different game. But, there's no reason why you can't beat it - you just can't play it like 2/4.




But - I'm actually having fun learning the game - it's just different.

[adanthar]

Just as a side note:[ QUOTE ]
Position is huge. Aggression is huge. Aggression with position is a must. Obviously, it's more expensive to stay with your draws - in fact - I've found that you're going to pay to see the turn and river much more often with a 4 flush OESD even if you raise with the hopes of getting a free card.

[/ QUOTE ]If you have a straight flush draw, you're a 55/45 underdog to a top set and a favorite over everything else except a flush draw+pair combo. Against any more than one person, you should be autoraising and capping if 3 bet. In this situation, you raise/cap the flop for value, not to get a free card (but if the card is a blank you check behind.)

That said, 1.5/2 BB might be just about as much as you can make in a normal 3/6 game without really good table selection. I'm just over 2 right now as I approach the 10K hand mark, but that's been aided by 2-3 insanely great sessions without which I'd be closer to 1.5. I know I have some holes in my game (example: my PFR's been climbing, but it's still under 7%) so it might be possible to drive it a little higher, but with the usual possibility of a 10K-long stall, 2 is probably as good as it gets long term.

Oddly enough, 5/10, at which I've been dabbling a bit lately, seems like a more profitable game. The swings are going to be huge since there's so much aggression, but the difference between 3/6 and 5/10 is that most of the fish limp in with 82s at 3/6 and *raise it UTG* at 5/10.

At this rate, I can't wait to see what 15/30 is going to be like next year.

[BobbyD]

[ QUOTE ]
Just as a side note:[ QUOTE ]
Position is huge. Aggression is huge. Aggression with position is a must. Obviously, it's more expensive to stay with your draws - in fact - I've found that you're going to pay to see the turn and river much more often with a 4 flush OESD even if you raise with the hopes of getting a free card.

[/ QUOTE ]If you have a straight flush draw, you're a 55/45 underdog to a top set and a favorite over everything else except a flush draw+pair combo.

[/ QUOTE ]

I meant to type an "OR" between 4 flush and OESD - sorry.

[Rico Suave]

Hey BobbyD:

[ QUOTE ]
I have no real words of wisdom yet - but you're not imagining things - it IS a different game

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I am glad someone else thinks so. And you are right about aggression.....passive just does not get it done.

BTW, last night I was fortunate enough to sit a couple of tables that actually played more like the 2/4 tables and posted my biggest session win at 3/6 to date. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

--Rico

[Webster]

Interesting thread - I've been playing 2/4 and up a couple thousand BB's. However!!!! the last month I've turned into a losing player at 2/4. YET, 3/6 I've been winning, what is odd is that BEFORE this month every time I would play 3/6 I would get totally spanked.

I don't think aggression is THAT much more in 3/6 - however it is tighter by about 4% (31% flops as to the currect 35% in 2/4).

I just wish my 2/4 game would come back, 1500 hands in the red is making me nervouse.

[BobbyD]

One additional comment - trapping or inducing bluffs by an aggressive better MUST be a source of your 3/6 income.

I find I can get an extra BB/player out of almost every hand where I know I'm way ahead and show weakness by check/calling the flop setting up a check raise on the turn - most everyone calls the check raise (or raise if you're in LP) and then will call you down if you bet out on the river.

Just be careful as you can easily be on the other end of this play...

[BobbyD]

And I've also found I need to actually pay attention to my opponents play which I just didn't need to do in 2/4 - I often multi-table 2/4 on Party and never pay attention or take notes on players.