Stud Hi: Trip Kings on 5th got ugly ...

[TheSalche]

After looking at this, it would've been better to go for the check raise on 5th rather than fourth, but I thought I could get at least one guy out w/it.

Hero is BI with J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] calls, 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] folds, J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] calls, 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] calls 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] folds, 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] calls

4th Street:
Villain 1: X X 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] calls____calls
Villain 2: X X 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] folds
Hero: J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] checks____raises
Villain 3: X X 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] checks____calls
Villain 4: X X J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] bets____calls

5th Street:
Villain 1: X X 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] calls
Hero: J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] bets
Villain 3: X X 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] calls
Villain 4: X X J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] calls

*thoughts here, villain 3 is probably on flush draw, villain 4 probably has jacks up

6th Street:
Villain 1: X X 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] calls
Hero: J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] bets
Villain 3: X X 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] calls
Villain 4: X X J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] calls

Okay ... so all 3 villains have 4 straights on their board, and they all have 2 flushes on board matching their door card suit ... awesome.

What's my plan for the river if I fill up? If I don't?

[MRBAA]

Forget knocking guys out once you have the trips. Prior, I think making a move on fourth is fine. On the river, since you have to act first I'd just bet it and fold to a raise. Although if two fold and the last guy raises I would probably make a crying call. If you fill, I'd probably still bet it and of course I three bet if raised.

[PoorLawyer]

if you fill i would bet. a straight or flush will probably raise, not putting you on a boat and then you can get an extra bet in. With all of those scary boards out there you will probably get a couple callers and it was be terrible to have them all check around.

if you dont fill i check/call. if you bet and get raised here you are almost always toast, but i would still probably pay to see it unless it comes back at more than one extra bet.

[MRBAA]

This is a really bad line, imho. check calling the river means you give two pair a free showdown while still paying off str8s and flushes. I prefer to bet and fold to a raise -- that way you still pay off the flush and str8s the same one bet, but you get a bet when someone calls you with two pair or lower trips.

[peritonlogon]

just out of curiosity, why is check/folding a bad play (assuming that there is at least on other caller)? It looks like there are 15-16 bb in the pot right now... I don't think he would be up often enough to call here, since,
-he check-raised on 4th with a 2 flush board, paired on 5th and got 3 callers on 5th AND 6th
-There are no dead queens (for villain 4) (2 live 7s as well) or Aces (for villain 1) (3 live 6s as wel) plus the three nines for villain 3. So 2 out of 3 straits are extremely live and the gut-shot board is still sort of live (and he's been calling).
-Flush draws are also possible in all 3 cases.

It would seem that, to get pot odds on an over-call, you would have to be in a room full of seriously stupid people who also hated money (which may well be case).

As far as letting a possible 2 pair off cheaply on the river, this might be a spot to do it.

If you don't fill I think I'd check/fold depending on position of bettor and your read of him.

If you fill, bet and pray that vaillains caught.

[MRBAA]

Well, I play 2-4 and 3-6 online almost exclusively and mainly 5-10 live. There are lots of loose players in these games who play hands that would amaze you. So when pots are big and I have any kind of hand I rarely fold. Yeah if the action went check - bet - call - call I'd probably fold. But what if it goes check - check -bet - fold? Or some such? I'd probably call, and given that I'm calling one, I'd rather bet (to get a bet when I'm good) because I do feel confident no one is raising who doesn't have me beat.

[frappeboy]

I'd check/call on 6th street because you probably are behind someone. I would check/call 1 river bet with 3 kings but I wouldn't call 2 bets. If you fill up, I think you bet if your opponents are weak and aggressive because you are so likely to get 3 bets out of them. If your opponents are stronger or more passive you should check raise. I know if I had a straight and a guy with kings on board bet into 3 four straights I'd definitely just call and give him credit for a full house. So against stronger players you get more money by check raising.

[blumpkin22]

I agree that check/folding is not out of the question. But personally I would bet/fold the river.

Now, if you happen to fill I don't think the bet/3-bet line will work, but betting and hoping that someone will be foolish enough to raise is obviously best. But look at the boards you are betting into. No one will raise you. But check/raise won't be effective here.

[benwood]

I think Frappboy's idea about checking 6th street is very interesting & warrents more discussion.
If one or more of them already has a made straight,the check is better because(1)it will save you money this round,&(2)if you fill up next round,you can get in a check raise on the river since you showed weakness on 6th.
If no one has a straight yet,it's likely they will check & you will wish that you had bet,but again,if you fill on the river,you will get action.You can bet out & get raised by a newly made straight or flush since your hand is disguised.
If you don't fill on the river.I don't know what to do.
Comments,anyone?