Bad play??? I really regret this decision.

[dimitrix]

I was playin a $2dollar no limit tourney on poker stars... Blinds are 200/400. I have 9000 chips and im on the button with A7s. Chip leader with 30,000 chips bets and i call.
3 people see the flop. 374... First player checks, 2nd player bets 400, and i call. Turn is A. Giving me 2 pair. first player checks, 2nd playe checks .. I bet 1000...First player folds, 2nd calls. River is J Chip leader pushes me All-in 8400 chips... I call thinking he has J7 or some 2 pair... He shows Pocket JJ... to give him a set to my 2 pair.
Could i play this any different?

[deuces09]

Don't know the circumstances, may have folded preflop

Have to make a laydown. Chip leader got to 30k by cashing with big overbets.

[Edge34]

Hey dimitrix,

Few things I'd think about: 1) Was it raised or just limped to you PF? If raised, probably fold. 2) Raise the flop. 3) Push the turn. Chances are VERY good you've got the best hand, and JJ hates that ace.

-Edge

[dimitrix]

I had A7s late position so i limped. I know he hit the J. But at best i had him on 2 pairs J and 7 or 4. He checked the A when that fell so i def had a higher 2 pair if he hit the J. I just didnt see pocket JJs coming.

[dimitrix]

NO it wasnt raised PF... Chip leader was pushing people around with his big stack... I raised the turn but maybe it wasnt enough. Even though I did raise more , i doubt he wouldve folded JJ with his number of chips

[0evg0]

you need to be a lot clearer, but assuming the very minimum (that big stack min-raised PF, called by you and the BB), there's t2600 in the pot preflop. Then add t1200 more for the flop betting, and you're up to t3800 at the very least, again I don't know what big stack bet preflop. If he bet 3x standard, you're looking at t5k chips in the pot after the flop. So why in the world you you bet t1k chips? What do you expect this to accomplish? Usually pot sized would be right, but that'd have you committed. You have to push the turn, no question about it.

[TheDrone]

I count 2600 in the pot on the turn. You are very likely ahead here, but I would not get comfortable and start messing around with small bets that are likely going to be called, especially by the chip leader. I bet at least 2000, maybe even 3000. If the chip leader calls, I think you can assume a strong holding, definitely stronger than J7 and potentially a flopped set. Then you should have enough information to fold to his all-in on the river.

[binions]

[ QUOTE ]
I was playin a $2dollar no limit tourney on poker stars... Blinds are 200/400. I have 9000 chips and im on the button with A7s. Chip leader with 30,000 chips bets and i call.
3 people see the flop. 374... First player checks, 2nd player bets 400, and i call. Turn is A. Giving me 2 pair. first player checks, 2nd playe checks .. I bet 1000...First player folds, 2nd calls. River is J Chip leader pushes me All-in 8400 chips... I call thinking he has J7 or some 2 pair... He shows Pocket JJ... to give him a set to my 2 pair.
Could i play this any different?

[/ QUOTE ]

So, there was about 1600 in the pot preflop (including the antes), and 2800 after the flop betting?

1000 is way too small a turn bet. Most of the time, you want to win the pot now in NL tournaments. It's OK to slowplay a MONSTER, but 2 pair ain't it.

Here, if a 3 or 4 hits, u worry about trips. If a 2, 5 or 6 hits, u worry about a straight. If a random card hits, u worry about someone making a set. U don't mention flush draws, but if there was a 2 flush, that's even more to worry about.

Bet at least the pot on the turn. Represent the ace. If someone puts you on a bluff or has a bigger ace that hasn't paired, chances are you'll get paid off. If not, you win the pot without a fight.

[SixgunSam]

I see a lot of people who are pointing to the turn as a mistake, but I disagree. He was ahead at the turn, that guy made a bad call with improper pot odds and lucked out and hit a set on the river. Betting 1k into a pot of 2.4k is not giving the guy with the JJ correct odds to call. You want him to call there, not fold his hand. He only has 2 outs! Why would you want to scare away JJ when you had two pair of Aces and Sevens?

The mistake was the flop. I would have raised the flop. That guy made a mini-bet into the pot where I had TPTK, I want to know what kind of hand I am against. What purpose did calling serve? What did you learn about his hand from calling? You definitely didn't give yourself a chance to win right there when you had TPTK by calling. If you thought he had an overpair, then you would need another 7 or another Ace to win, which gives you 5 outs or about 10% to hit it on the turn. The pot was about 1700, so calling another 400 there was obviously a bad play if you think you don't have the best hand. If you think you do have the best hand (which is very likely in the case) then you should raise. I would have raised to make it about 1600 or maybe 2000. If he puts me all-in, it would be read dependant on whether or not I call. If I had no read, I would probably fold because he has shown he has some sort of hand that is not afraid of that board. Yes it cost me 2k in chips, but I made the right plays. I bet when I thought I was ahead and folded when I was pretty certain I was way behind.

Calling on the flop is passive play and passive play is bad play.

Let's say he had KJ instead of JJ. He bet on the flop and you called, but if you had re-raised then he probably would have folded. Let's say you did call and a king comes off on the turn and he bets. What's your play then? Does he have a King? What if he instead has QJ and is just betting again? Now you no longer have the TPTK. He bet on the flop which didn't have a king, he bet on the turn which now has a king, what cards does he have? You have no idea and it's because you didn't take action when you are very likely ahead.