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#1
02-06-2004, 07:37 PM
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30-60 AA hand
30-60 at Commerce today. I have a maniac on my right, and I have had the pleasure of getting her heads up twice in my first hour of play. She loves making moves but occationally turns over a real hand. She open raises from MP, and I three bet with red aces.
Flop: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] She checks, I bet, and she calls. Turn:J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] She checks, I bet she raises. Whats your play, 3 bet or call? As simple as this hand was it got me thinking about quite a bit. Results later. 
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#2
02-06-2004, 07:42 PM
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Re: 30-60 AA hand
if it's a maniac i'd probably call here preflop and invite some other people along for the ride. you're going to look like you're calling with a marginal hand just because of her loose standards.
playing the hand as you did, i would 3bet the turn. without the presense of 2 flush draws, i could be inclined to raise the river instead.
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#3
02-06-2004, 07:48 PM
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Re: 30-60 AA hand
The answer to this question depends a lot on your opponent. You say she is a 'maniac' which leads me to believe it wouldn't take a whole heck of a lot for her to make this checkraise. If she would make this move with an overpair, Jack, flush draw etc then I would reraise. From my experience though, if you get 4-bet by a reasonable player here you're in deep trouble. But this IS a maniac so she could have a variety of less hands to do this.
Pipedream
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#4
02-06-2004, 09:48 PM
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Re: 30-60 AA hand
She could make this play with a nine a jack, a draw or a big hand like a set. Like pipedream said, I figured if I did three bet, there was a good possiblity of getting 4 bet, and I was not folding my hand under any circumstances.
So if she does have me beat and I three bet, she will four bet me, and I will have to call her four bet, and a river bet. So If I'm wrong, I lose 5 bets total between the turn and the river. If she has a draw, and I just call the turn, she will bet into me again on the river so I get three bets total. But if she has a draw and I raise her, I still only get three bets because she obviously won't pay off on the end. Finally, she could have a made hand that is inferior to mine, in which case she will call my three bet and another bet on the river. So I get 4 bets when she holds a worse made hand. It got me thinking about some of those checkraise situations where you are up agaist someone who is very possibly on a draw, but could also hold a big hand. Sometimes I think it's better not to three bet without a very big hand in these spots, because if it is a draw, they are probably going to bet the river anyway a lot of time, so you get the same amount of bets. But when you are behind, you can end up losing as many as five bets if you are reraised and then bet into on the river. So supose a third of the time she has a draw, a third of the time she a hand she can call my three bet with and pay off the river with, and a third of the time she had a hand that has me beaten and it costs me five bets to showdown. I'm not a math guy, so whats the right play?
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#9
02-07-2004, 01:44 AM
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Re: 30-60 AA hand
If I'm out of position, I three bet for sure, because I want to charge her if she is on a draw. But with position, I think calling might be best because if she is bluffing, she will probably bet the river for me anyway, and I dont put myself in danger of losing 5 bets between the turn and river. If I wasnt sure she would bet the river with a busted draw, I think I might have to raise the turn for sure, but since I was, I just called.
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#10
02-07-2004, 02:11 AM
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Re: 30-60 AA hand
This is some tough lover, Focker.
Oh. I got it. If you 3-bet then you get 75% of that last bet (or whatever your equity is when you are ahead) and the 4th bet only goes in when you are beat -- and that is versus that 3rd bet going in on the river with you either a loser or a winner, but 75% (or whatever) you a winner. Yeah. You're horribly confused. I mean horribly. That's me talking tough to shake you out of it, not trying to be offensive. You've either underthought or overthought this, but you've gone astray! One of the many reasons you 3-bet is because she'll 4-bet a worse hand. But in any case, many second best hands and miscellaneous misses will pay off the river, or even give up multiple bets, so don't worry your pretty head about that. JJ is impossible and 33, 44, 99 seem a bit unlikely too unless the maniac went against type preflop and flop. J9?, a maniac check called top pair on the flop? Piffle. Meanwhile there are a zillion draws and this is a maniac. If you are afraid of a big draw and a maniac on a rush getting there, well... it's okay, don't let the other boys tease you.
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