big pot, double belly, cold call

#1 09-26-2005, 12:03 PM

Another full-ring that got short.

Button is 35.5/0/.17 (13 hands)
SB is 44/0/1
BB has sat 5 hands, and played most of them.

Me likey pot.

FullTilt 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (6 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 folds, Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls, BB 3-bets, Hero calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (12.00 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, BB raises, Hero ???

#2 09-26-2005, 12:09 PM

Easy call. I see no reason to raise at this point if that is your question.

fundmyhabit · #3 09-26-2005, 12:12 PM

Am I the only one who 3-bets this on the flop?

DCWildcat · #4 09-26-2005, 12:16 PM

I don't think I would here. We don't have enough opponents to make a raise for value, and with a bet and raise in front, the chances of us getting a free card are significantly reduced. I like the call.

Hellmouth · #5 09-26-2005, 12:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Another full-ring that got short.

Button is 35.5/0/.17 (13 hands)
SB is 44/0/1
BB has sat 5 hands, and played most of them.

Me likey pot.

FullTilt 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (6 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 folds, Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls, BB 3-bets, Hero calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (12.00 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, BB raises, Hero ???

[/ QUOTE ]

My read is that villian has a high pocket pair and is trying to protect it against a possible straight. Raising to see if someone has a 7 etc.

So each of your gutshots gives you 4 outs (full since the read is high pocket pair)
The RR flush draw is 1.5 outs by the river.

You have 9.5 outs so this is at least a call if not a raise. A raise here may scare off mr big pocket pair but also might drive off villian #2 who could also be working on one of your draws.

I would call and reevaluate the pot odds on the turn. Most likely it will be checked to the raiser who will bet. The size of the pot will justify a call of 1BB to the river even if you miss on the turn. fold the river unimproved. Raise like crazy if you hit your straigt or flush.

Greg

aargh57 · #6 09-26-2005, 12:20 PM

I'm just basing my decision on the outs that you have and the size of the pot. You've got 2 overcards (3 outs) bdoor flush (1.5 outs) and gutshot (4 outs). 3+1.5+4=8.5 outs so you're getting 7.5 to one with 8.5 outs so you have to call. Even if you fear a reraise you'd still be getting 6 to one (a cap you'd get 5 to one) so you should call. With 8.5 outs here I think you've got about 34% pot equity (8.5 X 4) please correct me if I'm wrong. That would make me say that you should reraise.

Hellmouth · #7 09-26-2005, 12:21 PM

BTW I dont like your position for the preflop raise of QJs. I know that its marginal since there are only 6 players but I still think I would be limping this more than raising it.

Greg

Hellmouth · #8 09-26-2005, 12:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm just basing my decision on the outs that you have and the size of the pot. You've got 2 overcards (3 outs) bdoor flush (1.5 outs) and gutshot (4 outs). 3+1.5+4=8.5 outs so you're getting 7.5 to one with 8.5 outs so you have to call. Even if you fear a reraise you'd still be getting 6 to one (a cap you'd get 5 to one) so you should call. With 8.5 outs here I think you've got about 34% pot equity (8.5 X 4) please correct me if I'm wrong. That would make me say that you should reraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont think that his over cards are outs since I would put villin on AA-QQ a large portion of the time. Plus it is possible that villian had a pocket pair and hit trips. The only real outs to a raised flop seem to me to be the straight (double gutshot so 8 outs not four) and the flush.

Greg

turaho · #9 09-26-2005, 12:23 PM

Disregarding your overcards completely, you have ~9 outs (four 7s, four Js, and a BDFD). Even when you consider that a seven will only give you a one-card straight, your BDFD is not to the nut flush, and SB may 3-bet... this is still an easy call.

You don't have the equity to raise though, if that's your question.

MrWookie47 · #10 09-26-2005, 12:26 PM

At what appears to be a 5 handed table, raising QTs in the CO is standard. Open-limping in the CO is almost always terrible no matter how many are sitting at the table. The only exception is if the players behind you will play always call you with any two cards. In that case, you can consider limping, forfeiting a small edge preflop for what may be a larger one postflop. Even then, you should feel dirty doing it.