Either Life Exists Elsewhere or The Universe is finite.

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Thus, the cubs will win the world series again, in an infinite amount of time.

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Bad analogy because even probability can't help the North Siders.

Go White Sox.

[durron597]

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Thus, the cubs will win the world series again, in an infinite amount of time.

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Bad analogy because even probability can't help the North Siders.

Go White Sox.

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*shrug* I'm a Yankee fan... and I have learned that even .00000000000000000001% chances can hit.

[SeppDeitrich]

There is another possible problem. In mathematics there are various "degrees" of infinity. the most basic, are the integers (-inf, ..., -1,0,1,..., inf). There are also the "real" numbers, which include numbers such as pi, which are infinitely long decimals, and cannot be written as A/B where A and B are both integers.

It turns out cannot enumerate the real numbers, even using an infinite number of integers. Meaning you can remove 1 real number for each integer (-infinity to infinity) and still be left with infinitely many real numbers.

It follows from this that:
1: a certain thing could possibly exist, and
2: there are an infinite number of things that do exist

does not nescessarily imply that this particular thing does exist.

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

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Your assumptions ("premises") are not true, or at least cannot be proven. Therefore, whatever argument stems from them is unsound.


Conversely, you cannot refute my premises: "I exist. Therefore, the probability of life is greater than zero," and "Given an infinite number of trials, it is certain that a greater-than-zero probability event will occur again (and again)."

Until you can show me that: 1. the universe is infinite, and 2. no other life exists in it, then my original argument stands.


Adam

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neither of our assumptions can be proven. However i think that yours disproves itself thru simple logic:

1. lets assume the universe is infinite.
2. we cannot prove or disporve that life exists or not, this is the case in your premise as well. (since you state that all >0 probabilities will occur, there must be a paradox: there are more than 1 >0 probabilities that cannot both be true. furthermore we can assume the probability of no life on a given planet is greater than the probability of life. Thus there is a >0 probability that everyplanet we find from now to infinity will have the outcome of no life. There is also >0 probability that every planet we find has life on it. both cannot be true.)

Just becuase something has a >0 probability (or has already occured) does not mean it MUST occur. Just because the universe is unending (any way you define the universe as infinite) does not mean that every possible thing must occur. It could just be unliving matter continuing for eternity. Just use common sense.


(BTW i personally belive the chances of life existing in the known (finite) universe to be high.)

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

[ QUOTE ]
There is another possible problem. In mathematics there are various "degrees" of infinity. the most basic, are the integers (-inf, ..., -1,0,1,..., inf). There are also the "real" numbers, which include numbers such as pi, which are infinitely long decimals, and cannot be written as A/B where A and B are both integers.

It turns out cannot enumerate the real numbers, even using an infinite number of integers. Meaning you can remove 1 real number for each integer (-infinity to infinity) and still be left with infinitely many real numbers.

It follows from this that:
1: a certain thing could possibly exist, and
2: there are an infinite number of things that do exist

does not nescessarily imply that this particular thing does exist.

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this is exactly what i am saying.

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

here is a similar thread that i belive applys to this topic: