Huge pot, crap cards

[silkyslim]

so, raise no good because:
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J is not a reasonable win condition
[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] therefore, we want a lot of callers
[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] bad position for a free card

consensus on capping river?

[MrWookie47]

Well, it's not a terrible one. One thing is for certain: you may actually be buying outs. It's not like you have AJ and most of your outs are already clean or aren't going to be cleaned (reverse domination). However, you aren't buying all that many. Only 3, tops, and that's giving the J's full value. You won't be too happy about spiking a 5.

At this table, however, I think you would have had a hard time not knowing that your opponents like to cold call on the flop like this. I think that a buying outs play works better at tighter tables and against fewer opponents. Against a herd of these donkeys, I don't think you're buying much. However, you do get to raise for value.

In summary, at your table, I like a raise for value. At a tight table, you can raise to buy outs, but you're spending just as much for half as many in this case. Conceivably, you may also buy the button and a free card at this sort of table. At a medium table, you should definitely call and keep people in the hand. You'd not like at all to have just one cold caller and everyone else fold.

[SeppDeitrich]

if he is passive i doubt he would bety the turn with any hands that could beat you after that river. He either has 56, and you chop it up, or he has a set/2-pair and you scoop. So Cap it.

[DeuceKicker]

[ QUOTE ]
This reasoning comes straight from SSH's protecting your hand. My J was an overcard, and the crappy kicker is a good reason to raise. I also forgot to mention that I thought I may get a free card because my opponents were passive.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have SSH in front of me, but I think you're misapplying the idea of protection. You want to protect a 'decent but vulnerable' hand. Jack-high is not a decent hand. "Protection" might apply if you had paired the Jack.

I don't know how getting a free card is going to work. If you think you'll get a few cold-callers for your flush draw, and assuming they've connected with the flop in some way (since they're coldcalling) are you sure none of them will bet the turn if you check? Free card plays from BB into a field of eight have to have a microsopic success rate.

[DeuceKicker]

[ QUOTE ]
so, raise no good because:
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J is not a reasonable win condition
[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] therefore, we want a lot of callers
[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] bad position for a free card

consensus on capping river?

[/ QUOTE ]

That about sums up my reasoning.

Like I said, I wouldn't cap the river, but as others have pointed out, it's tough to imagine your opponents cold-calling with 85 or 98, so maybe you should. The fact that there are three other opponents in gives you equity if you're chopping (and the best case scenario seems like a chop).

I'll take the cheap way out and say you should have bet\reraise\called on the river.

By the way, if I had mis-clicked and raised the flop, I'd also bet the turn. With three other callers and all that dead money in the pot, you've got equity for a bet (looking for a flush only; forget about the Jack). It looks like UTG cold-called with an OESD, so he probably raises the turn. Maybe he just calls to get calls from the two behind him. Either way, bet the river. The board shows four to a straight, so you can't be sure anyone will bet for you.

[MrWookie47]

With 9 + 3 = 12 outs (don't double count), hero has about 24% equity in the pot. That's not quite enough if everyone calls, and he's likely to make some people fold. He's not folding everyone, however, so he has little bluff equity. I like checking.

Edit: If he's got a read that a lot of people can cold call behind him, I still like the raise on the flop for value. At most tables, you won't usually have this happen, so calling is better.

[Duerig]

I would probably cap the river.