spitting midhigh

[TJD]

It is clear that the 15/30 and 20/40 players have a problem on this forum.

To suggest that their posts belong alongside 2/4 or 3/6 hands is ludicrous and while I respect the many regular posters on this forum, anyone who suggests that they DO belong there have clearly not played BOTH limits recently. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

The 15/30 and 20/40 players are in a transition stage. On Party where most people play, there are very few full tables between 3/6 and 15/30. This means that most players will have played 3/6; moved to short tables at 5/10 and 10/20 to improve their HU and 3-way skills and then moved to 15/30.

It is probably true that many of the very experienced high limit players will view some of the questions as being trivially easy but the 15/30 and 20/40 players do NOT see them as trivial. Some of these very experienced players are kind enough to spend some of their time helping further the education of these "improvers" but there is no reason why they should do so, even though it is greatly appreciated.

If the 15/30 and 20/40 games were split it could be considered an "improvers" forum. It is true that all players at all limits are probably trying to improve but 15/30 and 20/40 players have a new set of challenges.

1) They are dealing with higher (full table) aggression than they are used to.
2) There are a larger number of better players (since a decent living can be made at these stakes)
3) They are now getting used to more HU and 3-way pots that started with players having tighter preflop standards at a full table.
4) There is a smaller pool of players, so maybe for the first time in their playing careers, getting to "know" the opponents becomes really worth the effort. At 3/6, just playing ABC with no reads and no imagination will win a sizeable amount.
5) Because the players are better, some are actually now capable of folding. Bluffing at 3/6 is almost a complete waste of time, yet at 100/200, we lower stakes players look on in disbelief as players "lock horns" and cap the flop and turn with 3rd pair or even air. We have the challenge of understanding when such action is +EV and when it is spewing.
6) They have the mental problem of dealing with significantly increased stakes

Assuming the site is there to offer a service to all players, it seems clear that some means of helping the 15/30, and 20/40 players is required without wasting the time of the more experienced players who do not wish to contribute to the development of the lower limit players.

A forum that was aimed at 15/30 and 20/40 players could be used for us to discuss ideas amongst ourselves to try and get a better understanding of our new playing environment. If any of the more experienced players would be kind enough to contribute that would be wonderful. Sometimes this input could be a detailed analysis; sometimes it could be a thought provoking question in the El Diablo style of forcing us to look at a core issue or sometimes it could be a Clarkmesiter one liner. He said in one of my threads, "You MUST bet this turn", no great analysis there but an absolute requirement by me to try and find out WHY! Several hours later, a quick and dirty spreadsheet let me understand why he was right. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

There is a huge improvement required to go from 3/6 to the real high stakes games. Can this site be of any help in getting us there?

Trevor

[piggity]

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Meta-moderation (a la Slashdot) would be great

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I agree wholeheartedly.

First of all, not all games at a given limit play the same. Most people seem to be hung up on where a specific limit belongs. The fact is, each game plays differently. Even at a lowly 30/60 game, the game can vary widely from being a limp-fest to being very tough.

(Secondly, not all posts by a given poster are the same. I have seen historically "good" posters write junk, and unknown posters make very good points.)

I think allowing for a modern moderation system where each post can be rated, filtered, etc. would be very beneficial to these boards.

[sqvirrel]

Normally only a lurker in this forum, but how about making the split to Mid-High Strategy and Mid-High Gossip

IMHO, posts on 10/20 - 20/40 do not belong in the same forum as 2/4 (small stakes). I'm for either keeping them here or splitting them off into a mid-level forum. I could see reasons for putting 30/60 into either mid or high.

[stigmata]

As someone pointed out earlier, 30/60 would end up being posted in either mid or high, depending on the context of the question. Generally speaking, idiots like me would put them in mid, thus preserving the elites forum from such terrible garbage.

[MNpoker]

The name of the forum is: Mid to High
The highest 3 games at Poker Stars are:
100 / 200 <-- so this must be high
30 / 60 &
15 / 30

Unless you want a different forum for EVERY level I'm not sure how 15 / 30 can not be considered to be Mid stakes.

Perhaps the forum title should be:
Mid high players with a lot of hands played and lots of posts?
It seems to me this is what the elite ultimately want.

[MaxPower]

There is just not enough volume on this forum to warrant splitting it up. Can't you guys put up with an occasional 15/30 post from a mediocre player like me who just wants to learn and hopefully one day become as awesome as you poker gods.

This seems like a solution in search of a problem. Even if you split up the forum, you will just get the same moronic posts we get now, but they will be on two forums rather than one.

[dankhank]

[ QUOTE ]
There is just not enough volume on this forum to warrant splitting it up. Can't you guys put up with an occasional 15/30 post from a mediocre player like me who just wants to learn and hopefully one day become as awesome as you poker gods.

This seems like a solution in search of a problem. Even if you split up the forum, you will just get the same moronic posts we get now, but they will be on two forums rather than one.

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what he said

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
IMHO, posts on 10/20 - 20/40 do not belong in the same forum as 2/4 (small stakes). I'm for either keeping them here or splitting them off into a mid-level forum. I could see reasons for putting 30/60 into either mid or high.

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I think this is the heart of the the OP's question. 2/4 online is not much different from 10/20 live.

[Mempho]

[ QUOTE ]
There is just not enough volume on this forum to warrant splitting it up. Can't you guys put up with an occasional 15/30 post from a mediocre player like me who just wants to learn and hopefully one day become as awesome as you poker gods.

This seems like a solution in search of a problem. Even if you split up the forum, you will just get the same moronic posts we get now, but they will be on two forums rather than one.

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