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#11
11-09-2005, 02:26 PM
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Re: Any eight will win!
[ QUOTE ]
I really don't think the one player per hand rule applies once all action is complete. [/ QUOTE ] Apparently, you're not understanding the relatively simple fact that action is not complete until the pot is awarded. [ QUOTE ] Obviously I'd be pissed if say a 3rd spade came out on the river and some guy goes "there's the flush" because that could affect the action I receive. [/ QUOTE ] I'm pissed whenever someone who is NOT INVOLVED IN THE HAND (as in the OP's case) says anything about the hand that could affect it. [ QUOTE ] However in this case all action is complete and F.R.M. is just saying any 8 makes a straight. He's not costing hero any bets here as all the money is already in the pot. [/ QUOTE ] He's not in the hand - why don't you get this? The only people who have any business discussing the hand prior to the awarding of the pot are the players who still have cards and the dealers. Not rail birds, not other players, no one else. [ QUOTE ] As for the case where the hands are tabled, if a mistake is made awarding the pot it's everyones responsibility to point it out. [/ QUOTE ] No. You're adding something here that wasn't present in the case that was being discussed. In your example, the hands are already tabled, whereas in the OP, the statement from a person not involved in the hand *caused* the hand to be tabled and the OP lost the hand. There's a big difference. F.R.M. should have S.T.F.U. 
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#12
11-09-2005, 02:42 PM
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Re: Any eight will win!
[ QUOTE ]
Apparently, you're not understanding the relatively simple fact that action is not complete until the pot is awarded. [/ QUOTE ] Actually as far as I'm concerned action for round is complete once the betting ends. In this case there was no betting on the river since one player was all-in so they advanced to the showdown. [ QUOTE ] No. You're adding something here that wasn't present in the case that was being discussed. In your example, the hands are already tabled, whereas in the OP, the statement from a person not involved in the hand *caused* the hand to be tabled and the OP lost the hand. There's a big difference. [/ QUOTE ] I don't think these cases are as different as you think. If you really think that one player to a hand applies at the showdown then what does it matter if cards are face up or not. By your reasoning if a player tabled his hand and mis-declared it, and the dealer began to push the pot to his opponent, the only ones who could say anything would be the active players.
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#13
11-09-2005, 02:49 PM
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Re: Any eight will win!
[ QUOTE ]
Actually as far as I'm concerned action for round is complete once the betting ends. [/ QUOTE ] So, you bet the River, my neighbor calls. You show down your straight. Neighbor is about to muck his hand, and I say "Don't you have a flush?". He realizes that he has back-doored a flush and takes the pot. You are OK with me speaking up?
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#16
11-09-2005, 03:32 PM
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Re: Any eight will win!
Your thinking is quite ridiculous. This is LIVE poker, there is more to the game than betting. Part of the game is observing what is going on, reading the board, and acting on all of the information available. If you fail to do so then you are not playing as well as someone else and your results should be effected by that.
There is a major difference in tabling your hand at a showdown because you believe you have a winner and misreading the board and mucking your hand. This is part of the ACTION and part of your job as a player. ACTION in live poker is any task performed at the table, including properly showing down your hand. Under the rules in most cardrooms (all that I know of)if in a tournament you told a player he should recheck his hand at the river to see if he may have a winner during a hand in which you were no longer involved you would be given a penalty for breaking a rule. If this occurred in a cash game you would be reprimanded and warned by the floor that this is not acceptable behavior. I'm not sure where you get your ideas from but they really only work in an online game where the computer handles the showdown and it is impossible to accidentally muck a winner. A hand is not complete until the pot has been awarded AND the next deal has begun. If a player tables his cards at a showdown it is everyone's ethical responsibility (as stated in most cardroom rule books) to make sure the pot is correctly awarded, if a player has not tabled his hand at a showdown it is everyone's responsiblity to keep there mouths shut about the hand until the pot has been awarded and the next deal has begun. There is no grey area there. This is how every poker room works under their rulebook's that I have ever seen or played in.
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#18
11-09-2005, 03:45 PM
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Re: Any eight will win!
I can understand why you assume I play internet poker, but most of my play is at live low limit 3-6/4-8 tables. I've played for 2 years at dozens of cardrooms/casinos and I've never seen anyone over react so much to a players comments at the showdown.
I've also never seen anyone getting a warning for commenting about a hand during the showdown but before pot is awarded. Hell at the limits I play it's hard enough to stop guys from saying "darn it I folded ..." when the flop comes rags. I have to go to lunch I'll post more later.
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#19
11-09-2005, 03:51 PM
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Re: Any eight will win!
[ QUOTE ]
I can understand why you assume I play internet poker, but most of my play is at live low limit 3-6/4-8 tables. I've played for 2 years at dozens of cardrooms/casinos and I've never seen anyone over react so much to a players comments at the showdown. I've also never seen anyone getting a warning for commenting about a hand during the showdown but before pot is awarded. Hell at the limits I play it's hard enough to stop guys from saying "darn it I folded ..." when the flop comes rags. I have to go to lunch I'll post more later. [/ QUOTE ] Kaeser, your experience is from limit, where it's only costing someone one more bet. This is a $450 pot. And regardless of the money, you're wrong. There are two players involved in this hand; until the pot is pushed to someone and hands are mucked, it is positively inappropriate for anyone else to comment on the decision at hand.
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#20
11-09-2005, 04:21 PM
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Re: Any eight will win!
This guys gets his ass kicked in the parking lot where I come from. That is like someone saying in front of his buddy who is trying to pick up a hot chick and having success, "Dude, glad to hear you are finally over the Clap".
It is your responsibility as a live player to understand what is going on at ALL TIMES. If you sleep it and dont expose, you lose.
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