What is Our Line?

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If the small blind is indeed a very good player, I dont see him betting 99 or TT on this flop after you capped preflop.

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Betting is EXACTLY what a very good player would do in this situation, especially if he could expect the EP limper to call without an A.

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If the small blind is indeed a very good player, I dont see him betting 99 or TT on this flop after you capped preflop.

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Betting is EXACTLY what a very good player would do in this situation, especially if he could expect the EP limper to call without an A.

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Please explain to me your logic. To me a very good player would check and fold the flop if he had 99 or TT in the SB after a person like Jeff caps preflop.

The logic is illustrated by hero's consternation -- the bet will often fold out a bigger pocket pair, especially given the possibility that EP will call with less than an A. In a big pot it's definitely worth a stab.

In a hand I've posted about before, David Pham made almost this exact move on me in the WSOP earlier this year and got me to fold QQ (he bet an AA6 flop, I called, 3rd player raised, Pham re-raised, I folded, Pham won the hand with 77). Maybe I suck, but Pham doesn't.

[Jeffage]

Ok, it took a lot of convincing for me to even post this hand because it disgusted me so very much. In fact, the next day at work I was in the middle of a project and started thinking about it and just wanted to vomit. Anyway, I mucked the winner. But at least, I wouldn't be the only one to do this, it looks like. The river goes bet, call. BB shows 99 and mucks 4-fckn-4. Oh well, we live and learn I guess. More comments appreciated.

Jeff

[AceHigh]

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But he also probably knows I know that and could also see my playing an ace fast on the flop

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With the 3rd player in the hand isn't this play less likely for you?

Maybe the play is to raise the turn and take the free showdown. (Note I saw the results)

I talked to Jeffage about this hand, but I wanted to post my ideas to see if they had any validity for the group.

Jeffage capped pre-flop so it's presumed he has large pocket pair or AK suited.

When flop AA3, sb (who had 3 bet) bets out, bad limper/cold caller calls, Jeffage should re-raise. Sure an Ace would slow play and go for the re-raise on the turn, but KK or QQ would have to raise here to see what's happening in the hand or put sb on defensive. AK can call so he's announcing he's got KK, QQ, or JJ, but that's fine.

If sb 3 bets and bad player cold calls 2 bets again Jeffage knows he's in trouble and can fold. Not just from the 3 bet, which could be a bluff 3 bet because Jeffage announced he probably doesn't have an A, but because of the cold caller. But, it's still 19 small bets in the pot at that point to Jeff at the cost of one small bet to see a card. Fold to any bet on the turn unless a J comes off.

If sb 3 bets and bad player folds, Jeffage can call to see one more card and fold to a turn bet. At that point there are 18 small bets and it costs him only 1 small bet to see the turn.

If sb has an A, wouldn't he prefer an overcall from bad player than reraise and take the hand right there? He might call, hope for the overcall and then bet out to guarantee a bet goes in on the turn.

If sb just calls, so will bad player. So Jeffage is in good shape for a check through on the turn potentially because he's shown strength, unless sb has an ace. He can value bet the river, if checked through again, or call one bet.

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When the A comes on the turn everyone has to either fear or represent an A in this situation.

If Jeffage's raise on the flop was the last bet it is likely checked to him. He can check and bet the river for or call one bet on the river.

If sb 3 bet and bad player called 2 bets cold and then there is a bet and call on the turn, Jeffage has to fold.

If sb 3 bet and bad player folded and sb bets out Jeffage probably still has to fold. But, if he made quads would he bet out after putting Jeffage on KK, QQ, or JJ? I doubt it. Jeffage has to fold to a turn bet with 3 aces and this action. sb would prefer to check and see if Jeffage made his nut boat or full of Qs or Js. He could then check raise or let Jeffage bet his hand to ensure the maximum action.

[mscags]

Nice Post. Def some good logic in it.

Mike

[SA125]

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The problem is SB could see my raise on the flop as making it less likely I have an ace and could make a play on me.

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It's exactly how he's going to see it, which is the whole point. You're saying you don't have one. If he has one, wouldn't he be just as less likely to 3 bet as you were to raise? So he'll likely call with an A and either donk the turn or go for c/r. I'm guessing he'd donk with an A so as not to miss a bet.

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What's your plan if he reraises and EP drops, then he leads the turn?

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Give him less credit for an A if he 3 bets, but more likely give him KK-QQ. He did 3 bet pre-flop from the SB. I don't think he'd 3 bet into you and the EP out of position with less than QQ. Calling and putting pressure on him to fire another bullet on the turn with 99-TT, knowing you'd rather raise the turn than cap the flop with an A, is probably the play.

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What's your plan if he calls my raise and then leads out on the turn in the event of a brick (a likely, uncomfortable scenario)?

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Most likely scenario in how I think he'd play an A and I'd feel the most comfortable folding.

So I think the best play is to raise the flop and hope it's checked to me on the turn, in which case I'd seriously wonder if a worse hand pays me off. Checking behind and giving a free card to a 2 outer might then get you paid off by a worse hand. Tough spot. Good post.

[SA125]

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Ok, it took a lot of convincing for me to even post this hand because it disgusted me so very much. In fact, the next day at work I was in the middle of a project and started thinking about it and just wanted to vomit. Anyway, I mucked the winner. But at least, I wouldn't be the only one to do this, it looks like. The river goes bet, call. BB shows 99 and mucks 4-fckn-4. Oh well, we live and learn I guess. More comments appreciated.

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I didn't look at the turn or result posts before posting my other response. That's why I said playing the flop fast may give away you don't have an A, but also says you're betting they don't either and you think big PP is bigger than theirs and the best hand. Good post.

[mikelow]

I would have mucked also. Since you capped preflop, why
not a raise on the flop? Having said that, I would have put SB on AK or AQ.