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#11
11-28-2005, 06:21 AM
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Re: AQo, monotone flop.
I like 3-betting the flop. This might get UTG to fold a baby [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. If UTG calls 2 more cold and button calls, I'm sure at least one of them has a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. If UTG calls and button caps, you know you're behind there already or he's jamming the pot with a big [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
It seems like your best play here is to re-raise with your pot equity advantage, to more clearly define where you're at, and to try to fold weak flush draws. 
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#13
11-28-2005, 07:30 AM
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Re: AQo, monotone flop.
3bet the flop, button will often have a weak ace/PP and UTG will have to face 2 cold(If he calls i assume flush draw and will most likly C/f the turn).
If utg folds, bet the turn and C/c the river HU vs button(I think he may bluff it). As you played it, C/f the turn to agression from UTG IMO.
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#14
11-28-2005, 10:00 AM
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Re: AQo, monotone flop.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] bet/call or c/c river. pot is big enough. [/ QUOTE ] I don't think he ever bets a hand I beat here on a 4-flush board. Certainly not 10% of the time. [/ QUOTE ] I disagree with this. Even very passive players recognize that this is an obvious bluffing situation. And I also think that such players are capable of calling a bet without the flush. I vote for bet/fold.
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#16
11-28-2005, 11:09 AM
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Re: AQo, monotone flop.
[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes I would just call preflop especially if I think my raise will not knock out UTG. Pinlifter [/ QUOTE ] We don't care about knocking people out, we care about getting money in with the best hand. I don't like the turn donk either. There's no real read on the 50VPIP guy, so he's basically unknown. I c/c the turn and probably c/f the river if UTG overcalls the turn.
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#17
11-28-2005, 12:27 PM
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Re: AQo, monotone flop.
[ QUOTE ]
We don't care about knocking people out, we care about getting money in with the best hand. [/ QUOTE ] Thats one dimensional thinking. First, AQo doesn't make a ton of money preflop so your not giving up much by calling. Second, Villian is only somewhat aggressive and he is raising a caller. He's not raising with a random hand. Often you will be dominated in which case a call actually saves you money. Third, You should want to play this hand heads up preflop as UTGs money is more valuable to you dead than it is alive. If thats not possible you will likely want to get it heads up once the flop comes(easier to do if you just call preflop). However, if you flop a monster you will probably not want to give away your holding until a later more expensive street. Raise preflop if there is a very good chance it will get you heads up, otherwise call. Pinlifter
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#18
11-28-2005, 01:20 PM
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Re: AQo, monotone flop.
[ QUOTE ]
Thats one dimensional thinking. First, AQo doesn't make a ton of money preflop so your not giving up much by calling. [/ QUOTE ] AQ makes a ton of money when you're up against one nearly random hand and a second, slightly-less-random hand. [ QUOTE ] Second, Villian is only somewhat aggressive and he is raising a caller. [/ QUOTE ] Villian is unknown. We have a stat read over less than 25 hands, and no table reads. That makes him an unknown. We can all find stretches where we've run something like 50/25 over that short a time. [ QUOTE ] He's not raising with a random hand. Often you will be dominated in which case a call actually saves you money. [/ QUOTE ] Not totally random, but it could be close. There's no way you can put him on a range of AA-JJ, AK-AQ to say that "often" we'll be dominated. This could be AA-66, AK-A9, AKs-A8s, KQ-KTs, who knows? I think we are ahead the vast majority of the time here. [ QUOTE ] Third, You should want to play this hand heads up preflop as UTGs money is more valuable to you dead than it is alive. If thats not possible you will likely want to get it heads up once the flop comes(easier to do if you just call preflop). [/ QUOTE ] UTG is loose and passive, and will pay us off on many streets when we hit our hand. We can't be scared of him sucking out on us. [ QUOTE ] However, if you flop a monster you will probably not want to give away your holding until a later more expensive street. [/ QUOTE ] If the flop comes AQQ or something like that, a flop c/r (as you advocate) will shut our opponents down as quickly as a 3bet/lead. Possibly even more, as a lead is seen as just continuation, where a c/r screams "I have an A minimum!"
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#19
11-28-2005, 01:45 PM
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Re: AQo, monotone flop.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Either you guys are seriously misunderstanding this Clark thing or I am. This seems retarded. Anyone have a link from his original "work"? [/ QUOTE ]I heard clark was a heads up thing. [/ QUOTE ] I believe it is. The basic idea of Clarkmeister's Theorum is that you should be betting most of the time heads up on the river when OOP and the 4th flush card comes. You will often get better hands to fold. Also by not betting you will often be calling bets from better hands where worse hands have the option to check behind taking a free showdown. Even a non-nut flush is going to have a hard time raising your bet.
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#20
11-28-2005, 01:49 PM
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Re: AQo, monotone flop.
[ QUOTE ]
Not totally random, but it could be close. There's no way you can put him on a range of AA-JJ, AK-AQ to say that "often" we'll be dominated. This could be AA-66, AK-A9, AKs-A8s, KQ-KTs, who knows? I think we are ahead the vast majority of the time here. [/ QUOTE ] I completely agree. Against many opponents I would say it's even wider, this is very often an isolation raise. AQo is a big hand shorthanded.
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