Could I have gotten away from this hand?

Bandgeek · #1 11-26-2005, 08:05 PM

Ok the 2nd post version of the hand is easier to read.

One of these days I'll learn to use the converter thingy

utmt40 · #2 11-26-2005, 08:07 PM

Wow thats a lot easier to read...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter

BB (t5365)
UTG (t4520)
UTG+1 (t4850)
MP1 (t4385)
MP2 (t6100)
MP3 (t4950)
CO (t4635)
Hero (t5055)
SB (t5130)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
5 folds, CO calls t30, Hero calls t30, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: (t105) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, CO checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (t105) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets t30, CO calls t30, Hero raises to t90, BB raises to t480, CO folds, Hero raises to t2000, BB calls t1520.

River: (t4135) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t3025 (All-In), BB calls t3025.

Final Pot: t10185

Results in white below: 
BB has Ah Jd (three of a kind, jacks).
Hero has Qd Jh (three of a kind, jacks).
Outcome: BB wins t10185.

#3 11-26-2005, 08:11 PM

I don't see any way of you getting away from this. If he had raised preflop there is a possibility you could put him on a higher kicker, but because this is an unraised pot your Q kicker is going to be the best in most situations.

Just tough luck on your part.

Bandgeek · #4 11-26-2005, 08:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see any way of you getting away from this. If he had raised preflop there is a possibility you could put him on a higher kicker, but because this is an unraised pot you're Q kicker is going to be the best in most situations.

Just tough luck on you're part.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, that's what I was thinking when I pushed in on the river. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't losing my mind.
Seems like in the deep stack tourneys everyone slowplays everything to prove how "sneaky" they are.

I've seen to many hands like this where the flop was KQQ and more than one person was willing to push all in with a dry K.
So on the river I was expecting him to fold a busted spade draw or call and turn over an 8 or something.

ansky451 · #5 11-26-2005, 08:19 PM

why check the flop? it seems the MTT board slowplays the stupidest hands to slowplay.

adanthar · #6 11-26-2005, 08:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: (t105) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, CO checks, Hero checks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet the flop (not necessarily a large bet) and your chances of getting away from it or stacking J9o are higher.

[ QUOTE ]
Turn: (t105) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets t30, CO calls t30, Hero raises to t90, BB raises to t480

[/ QUOTE ]

After your raise to 2K, will you fold to a push? Because that's what you have to do if he is any good and knows what a 'kicker' is. Given that you probably don't want to do that, you should call and then call any river bet.

[ QUOTE ]
River: (t4135) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks,

[/ QUOTE ]

So you raised to 2K and he called. He is a donkey, or has a decent jack or better, but not a full house. You are beat by 2 hands, tie one, and probably beat around 2 of his down to J9o (because even a donk will not *always* stick with his J7 after that action). I might check behind on this river, but I'm not sure about that (I'd rely on his timing and tells) and wouldn't get to it this way.

Bandgeek · #7 11-26-2005, 08:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
why check the flop? it seems the MTT board slowplays the stupidest hands to slowplay.

[/ QUOTE ]

I checked the flop because it was a monster, I needed to let a weaker hand catch up some or at least let someone else bluff at the pot first to make a good profit on the hand.
Too often the first person to fire at a paired flop takes the pot down and I'm just too greedy for that. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

gumpzilla · #8 11-26-2005, 08:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I might check behind on this river, but I'm not sure about that (I'd rely on his timing and tells) and wouldn't get to it this way.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think a more interesting question is what you do if it is checked to you on the river assuming you just call the turn raise, which is almost certainly what I'd do as well given these stacks.

#9 11-26-2005, 08:30 PM

I disagree with any choice of not trying to get all your money in here, because there are just so many cases in a pokerstars mtt where someone will pay off their entire stack with a worse J than yours.

adanthar · #10 11-26-2005, 08:30 PM

If he checks it to me, it's a much clearer value bet than the one in the Masters hand because he's basically saying 'my jack sucks, please bet the pot so I can give you chips'.