Veteran HE...Starting O/8

[ZenMusician]

hey!

1st post in here.

HE = TOP & HEPFAP
LLHE = SSHE
STUD = 7CSFAP
O/8 = ???

Also, what are my biggest obstacles coming from HE?

TY

-ZEN

[TGoldman]

There's been a steady influx of Hold'em players to this forum lately... welcome! I myself am a winning low-limit Hold'em player learning the nuances of low-limit Omaha/8.

Reading resources... Ray Zee's book is the equivalent of HEPFAP. Unfortunately, there isn't an equivalent to SSHE yet... I recommend piecing together the Omaha/8 chapters from Phil Hellmuth's book and Bobby Baldwin's chapter from SS2. Steve Badger's website also has some good tips as well.

Here's a few general tips from a fellow Hold'em convert...

1) Take some time geting used to receiving 1/4 vs. 1/2 vs. 3/4 vs. scooping the pot and how much you win in each instance. Due to the split pot nature of the game, you can actually lose money in O8 when you win less than 1/2 of the pot.

2) Stop thinking about situations in terms of made hands vs. drawing hands. This is really an arbitrary distinction that Hold'em players tend to make. Remember in Hold'em, JTs is actually a favorite to win the hand against 55 on a 289 board when the 89 is our suit. Think in terms of pot equity and make twodimes.net your friend.

3) Good starting hand selection is the foundation to winning low-limit O8. This is true in all forms of poker, but especially so in loose Omaha/8 games.

4) As a corollary to #2, draw to the nuts from the flop onward. Drawing to a flush when the board has paired is generally -EV (Especially so on a low oriented board). i.e., you don't have 9 full flush outs when you hold the nut flush draw as some of those outs will also pair the board. Discounting those outs isn't as big a deal in Hold'em, but in Omaha, expect to see the nut high and the nut low at showdown.

5) In general the Hold'em concept of "raising to protect your hand" is not effective. For example, in limit Hold'em if you hold top-pair, no matter how much you raise you aren't going to be able to get someone to fold the nut-flush draw. The same is true in Omaha/8, as you aren't going to be able to fold the nut low draw, nut flush draws, wrap-around straight draws, top full-house draws, etc. As a Hold'em player, I had to re-learn how to play a hand more passively.

6) Have fun! As a Hold'em player, I still get a kick out of reciting my hand on the flop... "I have the nut-low draw, with top-pair top kicker, a backdoor nut flush draw, and an inside straight draw." It's fun to flop such a diverse holding.

[chaos]

IMHO the most important concept in any split pot game is that the object of the game is to scoop the pot. Play hands that can win both the high and the low.

[Ironman]

One of the things that took a while for me to learn is that A 2 isn't really a "money making hand."

What I mean by that is that you will frequently split this pot with someone else when it works and even if you do win it alone, you rarely win a significant amount above and beyond what you put in the pot.

A 2 becomes a money making hand when you have A 2 3 and either the A or 2 gets counterfitted on the turn or river, knocking out someone else's naked A 2.

A 2 (or other nut low) becomes more profitable when the side cards suddenly contend for the high side as well as the nut low. Those are the hands that should be raised trying to get 3/4 of the pot because you back into a flush or you have two pair to an uncoordinated board.

It is a game of patience and looking for isolated spots to be aggressive.

Good luck,

Dave

[ZenMusician]

TYVM ALL...

-ZEN

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
hey!

1st post in here.

O/8 = Hi Lo Split by Ray Zee and NOT anything from Ken Warren

Also, what are my biggest obstacles coming from HE?



[/ QUOTE ]

Play to scoop. Escape for a split if you have to.

Any 2 cards can win, but not if everyone else is playing 4 cards. (meaning play coordinated cards)

Don't overplay hands like sets and 2 pair for hi. You're trying to make nut flushes, nut straights and big full houses. In a low limit game, people will be chasing non-nut flushes, idiot straights and under full houses, so if you just have 2 pair and a flush or straight is possible, tread very carefully.

You'll also see people drawing for non-nut lows. Avoid the temptation. Low Limit O/8 is very easy to play if you just draw to the nuts all the time, but it can be a little boring. 4-table the game, and you'll get some playable hands once in a while [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Beavis68]

As much as it gets trashed on 2+2, Hellmuth's chapter in PPLPs is a good place to start.

I read Zee's book after PPLP and Championship Omaha, and I can't say it impressed me much. The basic material is covered well in the other books, and I am not playing advanced players, so the advanced play section is that useful.

The writting is not very engaging, and it is more of a high-concept or discussion book, than a "do this in this situation" book like SSH. It also completely ignores odds. It is very basic and very advanced without a lot in the middle - and it is expensive.

[ZenMusician]

...For EP, MP etc...maybe LP vs. TAG games, etc?

Link or Post very appreciated, thanks all so far [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

-ZEN