Checkup: Simple Jacks, Ace on Turn

bobbyi · #1 11-01-2005, 03:09 AM

Opponent's first hand at the table, so all I have is the stats. Is this turn play right?

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $10.
2 folds, CO (poster) (38/12/1.25) raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, CO calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7.25 BB

Argus · #2 11-01-2005, 03:28 AM

If he's semi-bluffing, he's doing a bad job because he's begging to get 3-bet by AK given your preflop play. That makes me think he's really got you beat. There are a few hands I can think of in his range that you are beating or have odds to draw against: Kx to make a pair and four flush, a pair + OESD, or 78. I don't think they constitue enough of his his range to warrant a calldown getting around 4:1. Against a TAG I'd call it down, but given this opponent's stats I don't he's aggressive enough to try this without a winning hand.

donger · #3 11-01-2005, 03:31 AM

This looks fine to me against an unknown. You don't want to give free cards here, he looks fairly passive from his stats, so I would give him credit. Also, 38/12 doesn't seem like the type to be raising any two cards here after posting, so he probably started with a decent holding.

jdl22 · #4 11-01-2005, 03:32 AM

Not sure if it's correct, but that's my line as well. People love to hold on to aces especially on the flop. Also, with the double suited board and the straight draw possibilities even if you're ahead he could have a ton of outs. I think the 7:2 effective odds are favorable enough.

What do you do on the river if say a deuce comes and he called you on the turn, check/call, b/f?

edit: fixed messed up position on last question

bobbyi · #5 11-01-2005, 03:32 AM

You make a good argument that bet/folding is better than bet/calling. But about checking the turn? Is that an option?

FWIW, the way I played it here is pretty much always the way I would play it here, but I'm doing a checkup to make sure that that's right.

bobbyi · #6 11-01-2005, 04:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What do you do on the river if say a deuce comes and he called you on the turn, check/call, b/f?

[/ QUOTE ]
I think that's probably tougher than the turn decision. Definitely curious to hear what other people think because these spots are really common and important, even though they aren't exciting and sexy.

If I bet and get raised on the deuce river, I really really hate to fold. A raise there is just so bizarre I find it hard to give him that much credit. Did the deuce really help him? Would someone really have slowplayed on this board? I think I bet and make a crying call if raised. Check/ calling has its merits too. I really don't know.

baronzeus · #7 11-01-2005, 04:08 AM

bobby,

if he calls your bet, i bet/call any river lower than a T.

also, i like your line here. theres really no alternate to this line.

i'd bet any turn card, by the way.

#8 11-01-2005, 05:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Opponent's first hand at the table, so all I have is the stats.

[/ QUOTE ]
Can we have them too?

EDIT: disregard....OBVIOUSLY, I didn't read past your preface

#9 11-01-2005, 05:47 AM

Looks pretty standard.

Argus · #10 11-01-2005, 05:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You make a good argument that bet/folding is better than bet/calling. But about checking the turn? Is that an option?

[/ QUOTE ]
The board is much too draw heavy to allow a free card in this situation. There are many cards that could potentially beat you on the river, and you are also giving villain a chance to value bet his ace if he has it, so you're going to lose at least one bet to it anyway if you plan to check/fold.