KQ...can you find me a fold?

WalkAmongUs · #1 10-20-2005, 07:43 AM

Button is standard 2/4 24/8/1.5 player

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $2 (All-In), 2 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button 3-bets, SB calls, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players, 1 all-in)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button raises, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players, 1 all-in)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, SB calls, Hero calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players, 1 all-in)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, SB calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14.50 BB

When SB overcalls on the river should I be thinking TP2K no good?

#2 10-20-2005, 07:52 AM

3-bet the flop, call down if its capped.

??

#3 10-20-2005, 07:55 AM

*grunch*

I can't find a fold. I would have considered 3-betting the flop to re-take control, call if he caps and then c/c UI from there.

#4 10-20-2005, 07:55 AM

I fold the river. You're ahead of AJ/AK/TT, all of which would have had to been extremely overplayed and the button probably would have taken the option of checking the river. You beat basically nothing else in a reasonable three-betting range.

Fantam · #5 10-20-2005, 08:18 AM

I would not be overconcerned about SB calling on the river. SB has only called throughout the hand and I would imagine has a weaker hand than yours, such as Qx with a weak kicker.

I consider it more likely that you are beaten by the button, who has bet and raised on every opportunity.

So I think that I could find a fold, when button bets into 2 opponents on the river, as you are only beating his unlikely AK (or even less likely TT) preflop 3-betting hand.

#6 10-20-2005, 11:25 AM

* grunch *

Do you have any read on SB? A lot of low limit players with call all the way down with any pair (and other holdings long shot holdings). There is another class of players that will call all the way with something like AQ afraid that with all of the "action" they might be up against a set or two pair. Hell, I've seen some that will call all the way with less-than-set fearing a higher set. Anyways without definite evidence that SB is a decent thinking player you have to call the river with your 1:13.5 shot and expect to see rockets or cowboys more than half the time from Villian.

aargh57 · #7 10-20-2005, 11:41 AM

Grunching

My first instinct was "3-bet that flop, bet that turn!" but then maybe that's why I got a AF of 17 or something. If your sample size on button is good you can probably narrow his pf hands down pretty good (unless he considers you a LAG). Of those hands he can have you don't have many you can beat. As I see it, this is about what he could have:

AA-TT, AKs,AK,AQs,KQs maybe throw in AJs,ATs,AQ and KQ as outside shots. Of these you're only ahead of TT,AKs,AK and AJs. Of course your tied with KQ. I would be more concerned with button here than SB although a read would be nice on him. It would be hard for me to find a fold here too but I think that you have to at least stay to the river when you combine your chance of being ahead to your outs (the 4 T's and 2 Q's). When it gets back to you on the river it's 13.5BB so I guess I'd have to call just in case he's overplaying AK (very doubtfull but possible).

aargh57 · #8 10-20-2005, 11:45 AM

I think that's the problem with 3 betting here. Look at the hands button could have when you 3 bet him. He's probably capping all the ones that beat you and getting proper odds to call with the ones that don't (and the ones he doesn't he may cap also). So what did 3-betting get us? If you call your calling with a probable second best hand and even if you're ahead he's got plenty of outs.