Do bad starting hands do well short term or am I on tilt?

[steamboatin]

Is it the nature of Omaha Hi/Low that really bad starting hands can do exteremly well for a short peroid of time or am I just being stupid?

I am playing just under 20% of my hands and I am beginning to eat away the red ink from PTO stats. The red ink doesn't bother me, much because I still have a lot to learn and it costs money to learn.

I have a little over 6k hands now and it seems that Omaha can be really streaky.

It is my understanding that starting hand selection is even more imprtant in Omaha than in Holdem. Is this an accurate assumption?

[Beavis68]

Hellmuth wrote that Ted Forrest played all hands but pocket trips for a month and was profitable. I have been able to play up to 35% of my hands nad make money if the conditions where right (this includes the bb). I am not sure that there is a clear answer to your question. My answers only relate to limit.

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It is my understanding that starting hand selection is even more imprtant in Omaha than in Holdem. Is this an accurate assumption?

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I have heard this; and Im not all for it. I think the better player you are, the more marginal hands you should play. You can play most A3xx and be able to get off troubled flops, unlike most players. You should be able to grind out profit from those types of hands. But if your rather new, tight if right, no matter what game your playing.

[se2schul]

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I have a little over 6k hands now and it seems that Omaha can be really streaky.

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I think that most forms of poker are streakier than most people realize. Variance plays a huge roll. Even if you could play at the same table with the same opponents for a very long time, you will have streaks when you run red hot and streaks when you're really cold.

If these streaks weren't around, losing players would actually realize that they suck and there would only be sharks at the tables.

If you are running cold, just stay positive and play through it. Realize that you actually deserve a cold run of cards since things are just averaging out. Review hand histories and ensure that you haven't developped bad habits that are causing you to leak chips. Don't let a cold streak slowly transform you into a losing player.

Good luck, stay positive and work through this streak.

[steamboatin]

I'm not running bad, I'm clueless, but it is getting a little better.

[beset7]

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Realize that you actually deserve a cold run of cards since things are just averaging out.

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Though this might be a nice mental trick for you I wouldn't encourage others to think this way. This can lead to belief in things like heaters and being "due." You don't deserve a cold run of cards because you ran good for a while. This is just wrong as I understand it.

In O8B, there are a lot of hands, and i mean a lot, that are playable PF that people say arent. IMO, your play on the flop is what determines how many hands you can play PF. If you play the flop and turn exceptionally well, your implied odds are great, which compensates for playing hands like KQ24 or JJ57,crap like that....

Ted Forrest once spent an entire month playing every single hand dealt to him PF in O8B, and made a profit doing so.

The point is, if you can play the flop like an expert, you can play a lot of [censored] hands in this game....

[se2schul]

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Realize that you actually deserve a cold run of cards since things are just averaging out.

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Though this might be a nice mental trick for you I wouldn't encourage others to think this way. This can lead to belief in things like heaters and being "due." You don't deserve a cold run of cards because you ran good for a while. This is just wrong as I understand it.

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Every winning player is due for a cold streak just because of the nature of variance.

Here is a quote from one of the winningest tournament players around:

"Everybody will eventually run worse than they thought was possible. The difference between a winner and a loser is that the latter thinks they do not deserve it."

Link

[Buzz]

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Is it the nature of Omaha Hi/Low that really bad starting hands can do exteremly well for a short peroid of time or am I just being stupid?

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Steamboatin - What do you mean by really bad starting hands?

Just as some bets at a craps table are less favorable to a craps player than other bets, some starting hands are less favorable to an Omaha-8 player than others.

Casinos make money on craps by arranging payoffs for various bets so that the odds are favorable to the casino. A player might beat the odds in a given playing session, but over the long haul, and with many players, the slight casino edge proves profitable to the casinos.

Craps players obviously have a better chance of being successful if they choose bets that are less favorable to the casino.

A goal of many (maybe most) poker players is to make money playing poker. There seem different ways to accomplish this feat.

One way is to find a game with players who make more mistakes than you do, so that even if now and then you make a mistake and give some money away, you’ll probably still end up a winner at the end of the session because your opponents will give more money away than you will.

Another way seems to be to play when the odds are on your side and fold when they aren’t.

But before the flop, how do you know when you will have favorable odds and when you won’t?

Seems to me that it depends (1) partly on the cards you hold, (2) partly on the cards your opponents hold, (3) partly on the cards on the flop, turn and river, (4) partly on how your opponents play, and (5) partly on how you play yourself.

Maybe I’ve left out something. But at any rate, it seems very clear to me that the cards you hold yourself are only part of the picture.

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I am playing just under 20% of my hands and I am beginning to eat away the red ink from PTO stats.

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The number of starting hands you presently play seems to me reasonable for you to play at this time. What does that have to do with “really bad starting hands”?

Are you sure you’re playing the 20% of hands dealt to you that is the top 20%?

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The red ink doesn't bother me, much because I still have a lot to learn and it costs money to learn.

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Seems a good attitude, if you really believe it. But then why this post? Just venting because you took a bad beat or two (or more)?

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I have a little over 6k hands now and it seems that Omaha can be really streaky.

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Anything involving luck can be streaky.

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It is my understanding that starting hand selection is even more imprtant in Omaha than in Holdem. Is this an accurate assumption?

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How could anyone know the answer to that question?

Starting hand selection is important in both Omaha-8 and Texas hold ‘em.

Here’s one for you. If the universe encompasses all space and is expanding, where does it go when it expands?

[img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

Buzz

[Buzz]

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I think the better player you are, the more marginal hands you should play.

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Bullet Dodger - I wonder what you mean by “the better player you are, the more marginal hands you should play.” Do you mean expand the range of marginal hands? Or do you mean play marginal hands more often from early or mid position? Or both?

I think some who post here are better players than me - but I’m probably a better player than others who post here.

It’s moot because I’m not sure how it relates to me anyhow. I want to be unpredictable and you're less predictable when you play more, rather than fewer, starting hands. In addition, it’s certainly more fun to play a hand than fold it - but you can dribble away a lot of money by seeing too many flops.

It’s easy to predict what starting hands will or won’t do well for low - but before the flop it’s almost impossible to know if a given typical starting hand will win for high.

There are obviously some starting hands that are so horrible you can reasonably predict they will not fare well - but even very nice starting hands you generally need to connect with the flop to continue and then you generally need to connect with the board reasonably well on the river to win. In a loose game there are usually several players who hold hands having some reasonbable connection with the flop. After such a flop situation, assuming everybody involved plays reasonably competently, it’s then a matter of who draws best.

There’s no sharp dividing line between the starting hands I consider “marginal” and “playable.” Nor is there a sharp dividing line between “marginal” and “trash.” Yet I do more or less have starting hands grouped into these three categories.

I mostly reserve hands I consider “marginal” for late position play at loose tables. I also play some marginal hands in the unraised small blind and in the big blind even if raised. (I also play them or don’t play them at various other times, depending on circumstances).

Let’s use a set of hands I cite elsewhere in this thread,
K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],
<font color="white">_</font>
K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], and
<font color="white">_</font>
K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

In a typical game in which I play, I’m probably going to see the flop from any position with the double suited version. I’m probably going to fold the single suited version before the flop unless I’m on the button or in the small blind. I’m probably going to fold the rainbow version even on the botton or from the small blind. I write “probably” because there are a number of various considerations, including table image and how I think the way I play the current hand will affect the action I’ll get from opponents on future hands.

At any rate, I consider the single suited version to be a “marginal” starting hand for me, and as such, a hand I’ll generally play from the button or the small blind, but not generally from other positions in a typical game.

It occurs to me that we may not be thinking of “marginal” hands in the same way.

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But if your rather new, tight if right, no matter what game your playing.

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When you’re rather new, playing tight seems safer than playing loose.

Just my opinion.

Buzz