KK ---How's my line?

4_2_it · #1 10-22-2005, 08:15 PM

I'm in the of a 8ptbb downswing over my last 5k hands flame away. My move for pot control looks like it backfired on the turn.

Villain is has been fairly aggressive pre- and post-flop, but nothing crazy.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) converter

Hero ($244.10)
Button ($112)
SB ($36.20)
BB ($225.85)
UTG ($151.30)
MP ($70.70)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls $2, MP calls $2, Hero raises to $10, 2 folds, BB calls $8, UTG folds, MP calls $8.

Flop: ($33) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets $25, BB calls $25, MP folds.

Turn: ($83) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($83) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $30, Hero calls $30.

Final Pot: $143

Godfather80 · #2 10-22-2005, 08:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm in the of a 8ptbb downswing over my last 5k hands flame away. My move for pot control looks like it backfired on the turn.

Villain is has been fairly aggressive pre- and post-flop, but nothing crazy.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) converter

Hero ($244.10)
Button ($112)
SB ($36.20)
BB ($225.85)
UTG ($151.30)
MP ($70.70)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls $2, MP calls $2, Hero raises to $10, 2 folds, BB calls $8, UTG folds, MP calls $8.

Flop: ($33) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets $25, BB calls $25, MP folds.

Turn: ($83) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($83) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $30, Hero calls $30.

Final Pot: $143

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not bet the turn to price out the draws? If he's typical, then his flop call may just be that: a flop call. I wouldn't assume he flopped anything huge and give him the river for nothing. As played, you priced him in on just a flush draw from the flop (you gave him better than 2:1 to draw 2 cards to 9 outs).

#3 10-22-2005, 08:28 PM

I think it's fine.

whittiphil · #4 10-22-2005, 08:33 PM

I think it's fine... and do you mean 8 buyin or 8ptbb? Cos if 8ptbb downswing is notable, I want to be you.

Godfather80 · #5 10-22-2005, 08:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. It is fine. But a PSB on the river and we're folding. And what holding does Villain need to do this to us? ATC. Why leave Villain that opportunity? We've under-played our hand, so we're completely open to being taken advantage of on the river.

Unless we feel that what we lose in giving a free card is worth less than what we gain by inducing a river bluff, I don't see the point in checking behind on the turn.

Maybe it's a difference of styles?

4_2_it · #6 10-22-2005, 08:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's fine... and do you mean 8 buyin or 8ptbb? Cos if 8ptbb downswing is notable, I want to be you.

[/ QUOTE ]

5 buy-ins. I was on a 2k hand 10 buy-in heater and now variance is coming home to roost.

4_2_it · #7 10-22-2005, 08:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Unless we feel that what we lose in giving a free card is worth less than what we gain by inducing a river bluff, I don't see the point in checking behind on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was debating a PSB turn bet vs a check, but I felt that keeping the pot small and calling a reasonable river bet or making a value bet was the best option in this instance. I felt villain was capable of the dreaded turn cr and didn't want to get my stack in here.

It is right to mix up betting the turn in this situation based on read of villain or should I continue to maintain aggression?

Godfather80 · #8 10-22-2005, 08:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Unless we feel that what we lose in giving a free card is worth less than what we gain by inducing a river bluff, I don't see the point in checking behind on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was debating a PSB turn bet vs a check, but I felt that keeping the pot small and calling a reasonable river bet or making a value bet was the best option in this instance. I felt villain was capable of the dreaded turn cr and didn't want to get my stack in here.

It is right to mix up betting the turn in this situation based on read of villain or should I continue to maintain aggression?

[/ QUOTE ]

I just posted a very similar hand I played with QQ in position heads up. I also checked the turn behind for the exact same reason as you did. The only difference is that I thought my board was less draw rich. I'm unsure about these situations. I always want to be more aggressive, but it seems more often than not to be better to control the pot. Anyway, here's mine for reference:

PokerRoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (10 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG+2 ($23)
MP1 ($19.10)
MP2 ($21.45)
Hero ($22.65)
CO ($5)
Button ($23.75)
SB ($43)
BB ($27.30)
UTG ($24.50)
UTG+1 ($26.75)

Preflop: Hero is dealt Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
3 folds, MP1 calls $0.25, MP2 calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.75, 2 folds, SB calls $1.35, 1 fold, MP1 folds, MP2 folds.

Flop: ($3.75) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Mrweaktight bets $3, SB calls $3.

Turn: ($9.75) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($9.75) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $10, Hero?

Ghazban · #9 10-22-2005, 08:55 PM

In position, I prefer to bet the turn about 2/3 pot, then check the river behind (unless its a K [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]). If I get raised on the turn, I'm probably folding unless I smell BS; if I get led into on the river, same deal.

4_2_it · #10 10-23-2005, 08:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
In position, I prefer to bet the turn about 2/3 pot, then check the river behind (unless its a K [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]). If I get raised on the turn, I'm probably folding unless I smell BS; if I get led into on the river, same deal.

[/ QUOTE ]

The more I think about, that was probably the best line. One of these day I'll have to stop sucking at poker [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]