For (kind-of) Atheists

[Matt R.]

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math would still exist whether man had been around to invent it or not

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I don't think this is true. Euclid laid down the axioms for mathematics from which every theorem was built. Logic would still exist if this had never been done, but math as we think of it would not. Math is created from logic, in the same way as say, a machine is created from its parts. If the machine had never been invented, its parts would still exist, but you can't really say the machine exists. Similarly, if the most basic mathematical axioms had never been stated, the logic from which math can be built would be present, but you can't really say the math exists.

[Lestat]

You could easily be right. I am the WRONG person to be discussing math! -lol

However, I maintain that however you conceptualize it, 1 moon equals 1 moon and not 3 or 4 moons. Whether the numbers 1 through 4 existed or not. With or without man, a moon either exists or it does not. Can the same be said for God and/or religion with or without man?

[RJT]

[ QUOTE ]
You could easily be right. I am the WRONG person to be discussing math! -lol

However, I maintain that however you conceptualize it, 1 moon equals 1 moon and not 3 or 4 moons. Whether the numbers 1 through 4 existed or not. With or without man, a moon either exists or it does not. Can the same be said for God and/or religion with or without man?

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Well certainly the same can be "said" (obviously without man no one can actually "say" it) about God - with or without man He still either exists or not. Religion is moot without man, as is mathematics.

[Matt R.]

I think the same can be said for God. Religion is definitely a human creation though, therefore it would not exist.