3-bet, 2 street, 2 opponent bluff

gonores · #1 07-01-2005, 10:52 AM

My opponents in this hand are more readable than Suess, but, man...this needs to work a good deal of the time to be a good move.

Passive, non-retarded on all streets UTG+1 limps. I raise from UTG+2 with AJo. Decent multi-tabling MP cold-calls. Everyone else clears out.

Flop is K74 with 2 clubs. I have 0 clubs

Check, I bet, both call

Turn: 3d

Check, I check, MP bets, UTG+1 calls, I raise, call, call

I intend to bet out on any non-club river, and obviously fold if UTG+1 wakes up on any card.

pokerhooker · #2 07-01-2005, 01:43 PM

Hmm... I don't like it. I know the turn check-raise is probably the strongest move you can make, but I don't think you gain much over a lead bet bluff. You're already going to put the MP cold-caller to the test if he has a medium pair. I can't see him cold-calling with a K preflop and mucking it after it comes K-rag-rag. If someone has the club flush, they're not going anywhere, either.

Out of curiosity, you say your opponents were easy to read... what were you reads on them during the hand? Is that what convinced you to make this move?

elysium · #3 07-01-2005, 03:40 PM

hi gonor

this can be o.k., but it's a little better to check-raise the flop since it's more likely for the button to betout on the flop when checked to than it is for him to betout on the turn. you need to realize that when he refuses the turn freecard, your hand goes down in value.

wait....right, you're in MP. well that gives betting out a little more credibility. yeah, that can work. you should still betout on the turn, however. you must foldout those middle pairs and make the draws pay. allowing the freecard is not good.

Lawrence Ng · #4 07-01-2005, 03:57 PM

I like it.

Lawrence

johnnycakes · #5 07-01-2005, 04:09 PM

I hate it.

I can't imagine this being profitable.

Do you think both these guys are on draws?

gonores · #6 07-01-2005, 04:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think both these guys are on draws?

[/ QUOTE ]

No

Do I think passive UTG+1 has draw? Most likely. Do I think I can use his call to make MP's better hand fold? If I put him on "Good Player cold-calling" range, I bet I can fold his pocket pairs and if I'm lucky, KT/KJs...just maybe KQ.

Give yourself King-broadway there and tell me if you want to pay two more bets to see this hand through.

Your Mom · #7 07-01-2005, 05:11 PM

awful. I just don't see it working against 2 players enough to make it work. I think a K calls here every time - at least in the games I play in.

SA125 · #8 07-01-2005, 06:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If I put him on "Good Player cold-calling" range, I bet I can fold his pocket pairs and if I'm lucky, KT/KJs...just maybe KQ.

Give yourself King-broadway there and tell me if you want to pay two more bets to see this hand through.

[/ QUOTE ]

What decent/good multi-tabler coldcalls you there pf, leads with TP K-BWAY on the turn, then will fold a blank river UI because of your turn c/r? Instead of calling down.

I like your turn move for periodic meta game/strong/tough player set-the-tone play. But once he calls your turn c/r, I think you're drawing, not him, and check the river UI.

Justin A · #9 07-01-2005, 06:48 PM

This play has to be highly read based. I think it's good for your hand that the guy behind you didn't raise the flop, as i assume he would most likely do with a K. As long as these guys can laydown a pair on occasion then you've probably got a chance. You also likely have 4-6 outs.

gonores · #10 07-01-2005, 08:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This play has to be highly read based. I think it's good for your hand that the guy behind you didn't raise the flop, as i assume he would most likely do with a K.

[/ QUOTE ]

You really nailed my thinking here. His flop call sort of has a "wait and see" feel to it.