party 5/10. tpgk, but trapped in the middle

THWAP! · #1 06-02-2005, 12:54 PM

two people in the hand. UTG+1 seems to play solid, but is scandinavian. MP3 is pretty much a donk. he is way too fond of offsuit broadway and weak kickers.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) converter

MP3 ($810.4)
CO ($1140.25)
Button ($405.39)
SB ($688.5)
BB ($221)
UTG ($1130.46)
UTG+1 ($920.9)
MP1 ($1030.25)
Hero ($945)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $5.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $10, 1 fold, Hero calls $10, MP3 calls $10, 1 fold, Button calls $10, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($60) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $45, MP3 calls $45, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls $45.

UTG+1 called. not thrilled. but why didn't he c/r or lead out? weird.

Turn: ($195) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 bets $100, UTG+1 calls $100, Hero calls $100.

Does anyone bet the turn here? My thinking was that I was probably ahead of MP3, but I still didn't have any idea where UTG+1 was at. He could be taking a really bizarre line with a set, though this is unlikely. I'm not terribly worried about a free card here, so I checked because I wanted to keep the pot small just in case I was behind, and I wanted to see if MP3 would bet and UTG+1 would raise (in which case I'd be done with the hand).

River: ($495) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks.

Does anyone bet here?

Final Pot: $495

Results in white below: 
UTG+1 has Kh 3h
Hero has Qc Kd (one pair, queens).
MP3 has Kc Qd (one pair, queens).
Outcome: MP3 wins $247.50. Hero wins $247.50.

TomCollins · #2 06-02-2005, 02:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
he is way too fond of offsuit broadway and weak kickers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like you are too.

AZK · #3 06-02-2005, 04:54 PM

Why didn't you bet the turn?

piki · #4 06-02-2005, 04:56 PM

right

I want to define my hand as a non-draw looking good kind of hand. I dont want anyone getting a free card to go with my chips they take on their drawed hand

THWAP! · #5 06-02-2005, 06:20 PM

fine, bet the turn. but seriously, what drawing hands am i really afraid of here? i mean, the flop was pretty damn drawless. If i have mp3 read right, then i should probably be way ahead of him here (but not to the point where i want this pot to get a whole lot bigger). and if we're threeway, then the pot's probably protected, and i don't have to worry about a giant move getting sprung on me where i get blown off the best hand. if mp3 bets and utg+1 does anything, then it's clear i'm beat, and i get away cheap.

so i don't see really the defense purposes of betting. maybe i get some value, but it's on a hand that admittedly can't stand a whole lot of heat.

creedofhubris · #6 06-03-2005, 01:41 AM

I think I would've bet the turn.

The key is that you're ahead of QJ/QT, which will probably call you, and AQ would've raised preflop, so it's a set or you're ahead. If you're raised it's an easy muck, but otherwise you'll be trapped for two medium bets rather than one.

1800GAMBLER · #7 06-03-2005, 10:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
UTG+1 seems to play solid, but is scandinavian

[/ QUOTE ]

Hahaha, that was awesome.

beerbandit · #8 06-03-2005, 10:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
UTG+1 seems to play solid, but is scandinavian.

[/ QUOTE ]

what does this matter?

just curious -- never played in this game or noticed if a palyer was scandinavian or not

cheers

psuasskicker · #9 06-03-2005, 11:10 AM

so i don't see really the defense purposes of betting. maybe i get some value, but it's on a hand that admittedly can't stand a whole lot of heat.

Um, cause you'd rather be driving the betting than calling it? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Seriously, this is pretty fundamental. If the board was more threatening then I'd say it's a good idea to let them drive the betting and you just call out bluffing. Keeps the pot small and doesn't have a high risk of you getting blown off your hand. But on that crappy board? You should be driving that betting cause if you're not:
- You run the risk of someone catching a stupid two-pair/trips on you for free. With two opponents there could be as many as 10 cards in the deck that kill your hand.
- Your betting allows you to figure out easily when you're not best (you get raised), but checking tells you nothing about the strength of your hand.
- You possibly miss out on value you'd get from morons who will call you with weaker hands (like the donk calling with bottom pair, who would have paid off a river bet too).

That was a p*ssy check on both the turn and the river. Bet $200 - $250 split between both streets and get paid.

- C -

piki · #10 06-03-2005, 11:47 AM

Good points. I guess for me I always play my hands fast. There isnt a lot of value in that hand here, but I do it because of how it defines my table image.