KQo hand out of position.

[chief444]

Converter doesn't seem to be working but this is a hand I just played with QTip and we were discussing the river. I told him I thought this was a very standard play.

Opponent is pretty aggressive and quite loose...as in not folding any pair on turn, not checking flop or turn when checked to. Anyway....

Party 3/6 full:

I open raise with KQo from EP. Villain 3-bets from CO.

HU to flop of KKJ, two suited.

I check, villain bets, I call.

Turn 9 no flush. I check/raise, villain calls.

River is the third K. (Obviously no flush)

I check....

Thoughts?

[TheHammer24]

I like leading out here. If Villian has a pair he is likely to raise when you lead out. In wich case you can 3-Bet and perhaps get him to cap. However, although check raising induces the bluff for one bet, and most of the time he'll call the raise. It's close, but I like leading out.

[oreogod]

against aggressives I also like bet/call on the flop, bet/3-bet on the turn. It works well shorthanded and usually gets more money in the pot.

Now you can let him hang himself, which is essentially what your line is doing, and if the check raise works, you are pretty much getting the same amount of money in as the bet/call line. So maybe I dont know what the hell the point of my post is. Just thoughts.

[oreogod]

Heres a recent hand that shows what Im talking about.

sfer hand

Edit: I like the bet/call line better, but I like your river play. If you could combine the two and it worked, be a pretty sweet hand. Dont know if its a reality though.

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
against aggressives I also like bet/call on the flop, bet/3-bet on the turn. It works well shorthanded and usually gets more money in the pot.


[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I do that a lot. But if he's got a smaller pair I didn't think he would raise...at least not twice. This board's fairly scary for QQ or worse and I didn't think he was aggressive enough to raise...at least not twice. Anyway, I was mostly interested in whether or not others saw this river as a standard play considering hand ranges for my opponent and also for what he may believe I have.

[oreogod]

well if he can beat a jack hes definitly betting. dont really see A-high still in this or anything below a J. Most players would not put u on a king, most UNthinking players I mean.

Say you are the Villian and hold QQ in this spot, I think it would be a tough situation for most players on whether to bet or check. Most would bet just for probability alone.

[FishHooks]

He only called your check raise on the turn, so I wouldn't think checking the river would be the best play, I like betting on the river.

[chief444]

OK, I'll post my thoughts now since I'm going out soon and check back tomorrow.

AT is in his pf 3-betting range and AQ is possible as well. A9/A8 or so may have been as well. Neither call a river bet. Either very well may bet the river (after my turn play and seemingly unusual river check), IMO...based on my read. I'm not sure after my turn check/raise that any pocket pair would raise if I bet though. I didn't think so. However, with my turn check/raise and river check I think this opponent would put me on QT and bet pretty much any Full house. So I expected the opponent to basically bet this river a pretty high percentage of the time and also pay off another check/raise with a full house or fold anything else.

[oreogod]

yeah I meant I dont think A-high is getting as far as the river. definitly a possibility to be in it on the flop though. Sorry about that, sometimes I just kinda spew posts in one fell swoop without re-editing them.

But yeah, it would be hard to not bet QQ here. You are more likely to have the straight then the last K. Id give it some thought...if u check-raised me though, Id know its game over. But then again, are u even able to fold QQ to a checkraise? You played the hand like some ppl would play JJ. Im pretty sure there is enough doubt that hed have to call the check raise.

[chief444]

This opponent was calling the raise with 22 or better. I have little doubt...especially considering my play will seem pretty odd to him.